What is missing here is the following: Please watch this with a lot of attention. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9CauJP4Pg
There was far less co-operation between Nazi ruled Germany & the distant Arabs than the German Zionist Federation which made the decisions on virtually all issues dealing with Germany's entire, Jewish community, Non Zionists & Zionists alike. They claimed to represent the interests of all German Jews but had one primary goal of denying the possibility of German Jews to go anywhere else in the world but Palestine no matter what the cost. It seems important to heavily stress the vast difference between Germany's loyal, prosperous & well assimilated Jewish community & the malevolent & Nazi complicit Zionists (German Zionist Federation) Germany's Jews despised. The sentiments expressed by Walther Rathenau, below were typical of the Jews who had it better in Germany than anywhere else in Europe. “Zionism's Historic Partnership with Anti-Semites” http://www.henrymakow.com/the_lies_of_zionism.html EXCERPT "Such was the assimilation of German Jewry and its full identification with the German nation that Herzl's original aim of having the First Zionist Congress held in Germany had to be changed to Switzerland due to the opposition of German Jews. Walther Rathenau, German Foreign Minister after World War I expressed the widespread sentiment: "I am a German of Jewish stock. My nation is the German nation, my fatherland is the German fatherland, and my faith is the German faith, which transcends the various confessions." 100,000 Jews had fought for the Kaiser, of whom 10,000 were volunteers. A massive 35,000 Jews were decorated. The League of Nationalist German Jews declared: "Our way is not the way of the Zionists... of people who clearly hesitate between Germany and Jewry... of internationalist fanatics... We reject a Jewish united front, the only united front we care for is a German one..."CONTINUED The rich & powerful Holocaust Industry has ensured that few people know that 100,000 Jews fought for the Kaiser in WW 1 and 150,000 fought for Germany in WW 2. For the same reason, few people know the extensive degree to which German Zionists co-operated with the Nazis, cheated, betrayed & even killed non Zionist Jews before, during & after WW 2. It is additionally noteworthy that of the 150,000 Jews that served in the SS, Wehrmacht & Kapos, there were 12 highly decorated German Jewish Generals commanding hundreds of thousands of non Jewish German soldiers. This was made possible due to the old & extensive assimilation of German Jews into Germany's society. The extensive role of overt German Jews in Germany's military is simply another reality that exposes the fraudulent nature of what Norman Finkelstein calls the highly exaggerated & crassly exploited "Holocaust Industry". “The Diaspora Need Not Apply” http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/04/j...and-of-israels-treatment-of-the-palestinians/ EXCERPTS "“It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews. They...fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Hameitzor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today. They incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the “saviors”. "Here are two replies given by Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said “One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland.” (G-d forbid). Weitzman said, “The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant” (May we be spared)"CONTINUED “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army” http://www.henrymakow.com/israeli_haganah.html EXCERPT “In his 1988 book "Blowback," Christopher Simpson says captured SS records documented a covert agreement between the SS and the Haganah, the forerunner of the Israeli Defense Force. "Under the arrangement the Haganah was permitted to run training camps for Jewish youth inside Germany."CONTINUED
Bosnians aren't Arabs.. They reasons that Bosnia went with the Axis are complex ... dating back to WW1 and the Ottoman Empire. - - - Updated - - - Fascinating... 100,000 Jews had fought for the Kaiser, of whom 10,000 were volunteers. A massive 35,000 Jews were decorated. The League of Nationalist German Jews declared: "Our way is not the way of the Zionists... of people who clearly hesitate between Germany and Jewry... of internationalist fanatics... We reject a Jewish united front, the only united front we care for is a German one..."CONTINUED
No.. If you go to the Waffen SS website, it lists foreign volunteers.... There were no Arabs and no Palestinians.
Outrage and Denial The Nazis and the Palestinian Arabs https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=816&v=VjARZPAcATM Sara Zoabi Speaks at ISRAELI KNESSET - Oct 14, 2015 (Eng. Translation) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSOMe9LuC-E Jewish people dance in Jerusalem http://www.youtube.com/embed/RzhQuQGyulA?hd=1
The Muslim claim to Jerusalem by Daniel Pipes. http://www.danielpipes.org/84/the-musli ... -jerusalem
Youtube videos are not evidence Free Arabian Legion (جيش بلاد العرب الحرة was a Nazi German military unit formed from Arab volunteers from the Middle East and North Africa during World War II. It was created by Amin al-Husseini and Rashid Ali when they suggested the formation of an army of Arab volunteers, which was adopted by Adolf Hitler in 1941. The unit was based on a smaller force, commanded by Hellmuth Felmy, mainly to assist the Pro-Nazi revolt in Iraq which was suppressed by the British. The unit was first settled in Syria and included several Iraqi expatriates, and Syrian Arabs. After the conquest of Syria by the British and Free-French forces, the unit was moved to Sounion in Greece. There it received more Arab and Muslim troops who were on the soil of Europe at the time, as prisoners of war, or as volunteers.
The innocent questions youÂ’ve raised involve one of the most controversial issues I can think of in the Western world so you are certain to hear some strong language from all sides of the issue. From strictly a rhetorical perspective I've found that the more vitriolic the language, the less valid the argument. Thanks for introducing what is certain to be a very "spirited" debate. The controversy over legitimate ownership of Palestine arises from efforts by relatively recent, (1870 on) Foreign immigrants / Invader-Occupiers to validate a claim to a land inhabited by another group of people who have inhabited Palestine since before the Bronze age as proven by recent, hotly contested & loudly vilified yet valid genetic studies. Because the Jewish Population of Palestine comprised only 2% 3% of its total population and only 1 of the 38 signatories to Israel's Declaration of Independence were native to Palestine, the recent arrivals have been desperate to validate an ancient "Right" to land with which they have had no apparent genetic connection via multiple studies by Jewish & noon Jewish scientists, archeologist & historians I will only submit some of the realities, discoveries & opinions you are not likely to have run across through a casual study of widely represented, popular information. However, since Historians & Scientists on “Shoestring Budgets” proposing unconventional discoveries have faced poverty, vilification & worse long before the Spanish Inquisition, their factual findings are underrepresented to the point of occasional repression. Firstly, there are new discoveries & re-evaluations of old discoveries almost every day in the fields of genetics, geology, Extra-biblical literature, camel bones etc etc that refute many long held notions Over 40 years ago, (1973) I went to the region to find out many of the same questions you've posed from working archeologists, Regional scholars, historians etc & since then have studied its history & followed the current events that have comprised the telling & repression of its history. Since the validity of the State of IsraelÂ’ Jewish nature rests largely on Hebrew mythology as related in the Old Testament, the Israeli government spends $ Millions running networks of professionally trained, paid, scripted students to "edit" Wikipedia etc & ensure that the myths supporting Hebrew mythology & ultra-nationalist, modern Zionist dogma dominates most of what you read, hear & see via Hollywood, popular discoveries, TV Documentaries & fictional classics such as ‘Exodus” & countless others. A couple of geographic realities that may dispel much of what you may have learned in Sunday School & from fictional, "Star Studded" movies is that the sea level was about 60' lower 10,000 years ago so that many of the earliest settlements are now underwater leaving more questions than answers. Additionally, many major Rivers have changed courses & river deltas extend further than they did thousands of years ago leaving many buried records to be discovered by future generations The Ancient Levant was a “Land Bridge” / Trade route through which many merchants & Armies passed & many powerful Empires colonized. Virtually all Ancient Empire & rulers exaggerated their military prowess, duration & scope of their Empires & size of their cities. The Ancient Hebrews were only one of many regional tribes but so insignificant that they were mentioned maybe once in all the extensive records of the Ancient Egyptians, the regionÂ’s most thorough record keepers [1] Early, Western, Christian Archeologists are said to have gone to the "Holy Land" with a "Shovel in one hand and the Old Testament in the other” & discarded many Canaanite, Phoenician etc artifacts that conflicted with or was unrelated to the Hebrew mythology they sought to validate. One of the questions you raised was: “Is the claim of King David as a ruler basis for Jews? Is there any historical evidence? “ While I strongly recommend that you do your own research, the following source touches not only on your question but the volatility of the topic at hand: “David's Jerusalem: It's Not There - Archaeology Disproves The Bible” https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.jewish/VFc2yaqFFdE[1-25] EXCERPT “David's Jerusalem: Fiction or Reality? July/August 1998 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review It's Not There: Archaeology Proves a Negative Margreet Steiner EXCERPT “The history of Jerusalem is going to have to be rewritten. As we
gradually assimilate the archaeological record, we are finding more
and more evidence that calls into question long-held assumptions about
the city's past. This is especially true of the three periods I will
discuss here, which are already the subject of heated debate: the Late
Bronze Age, Iron Age I and the beginning of Iron Age II. The history
of these periods is particularly sensitive in that it ultimately
involves the historicity of the glorious reigns of David and
Solomon—at least, according to the Bible—and the existence of the
United Monarchy of Israel.”CONTINUED And: "The Archaeological Evidence for the Bible is Non-Existent!" http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMN...cal_Evidence_for_the_Bible_is_NonExistent.htm - - - - - - - - Discoveries in the science of genetics has has inspired more rancorous controversy relating to the issue youÂ’ve raised. For Example, this study also goes under: “Johns Hopkins Genome Study of Jewish Origins” “New Genome Study Destroys Zionist Claims to Palestine! “http://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...ign-myth-of-jewish-genome-to-usurp-palestine/ “ EXCERPTS On December 14, 2012, Dr. Eran Elhaik turned almost two generations of Jewish genome research upside down. - But he went even further. The young Israeli-American geneticist has charged former researchers with academic fraud, and he has the research to back it up. But why?(*)They perpetrated the fraud solely to support the bogus biblical claim to Palestine which was anchored in their being a separate people. This distinguished them from all others because they claimed a land title in their blood. - They bet the farm on this DNA proof of purchase, a God given(*)bar coded passport to the Palestine. Dr. Ehaik just erased the bar code. It was just stamped on anyway, because it was never in the blood.”CONTINUED - - - - - - - - - While de facto ownership of Palestine is currently established by Israel's military might & illegal Settlement expansionism is anathema to a just & durable peace, archeological & scientific findings will have little impact on the legitimate division of this small but hotly contested piece of land that is so important to so many. Thanks -- - - - - - [1] ““Take Egypt out and the whole structure of the(*)IsraelitesÂ’ tale would instantly fall apart.” https://ashraf62.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/in-ancient-egypt-canaan-revisited-without-israel/ EXCERPT “Did you know that Egypt is(*)mentioned in the Holy Bible approximately 700 times (Egypt: 595 times, Egyptian(s): 120 times). Obviously, Egypt must have played a vital role in the history of the Hebrews otherwise it wouldnÂ’t have been such a recurring theme in the Jewish holy book. Egypt was, and still is, the magnificent overture to the IsraelitesÂ’ story. Take Egypt out and the whole structure of the(*)IsraelitesÂ’ tale would instantly fall. But on the other hand, do you know how many times Israel or the Israelites were mentioned in the ancient Egyptian records? Â… Well, and according to history and the ancient Egyptian meticulous records, .... once or Â… maybe none at all.”CONTINUED
“Palestine as an historical identity...” The 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica shows the map of Palestine extending from the Sinai in the South to the Litani River (now 20 miles into Lebanon) in the North, also, from the Mediterranean Sea in the West to an undefined boundary in the Eastern desert, East of the Jordan River towards Mesopotamia. On November 2, 1917, the British Government issued the Balfour Declaration in the form of a letter from British Foreign Minister Arthur Balfour to Lord Rothschild, including the words "His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people . . ." Was the Balfour Declaration intended to apply to Trans-Jordan? The answer is yes! The internal British debates that led to the Declaration show clearly that the British policy was to achieve control of an uninterrupted land corridor from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf. They could not have intended to create a Mesopotamia (later renamed Iraq) with its Western boundary at the Jordan River. Even Lord Curzon's October 26, 1917 critique of the proposed Balfour Declaration expressly took it for granted that its support for a Jewish National Home policy would apply to historical Palestine on both sides of the Jordan River. His memorandum stated that Palestine east and west of the Jordan River was too small a country for the Jewish people. In 1919, a Zionist delegation was invited to the Paris Peace Conference on behalf of the future population of Palestine. The Emir Feisal, a son of the Hashemite Hussein, Sherif of Mecca, as well as a hero of the Lawrence of Arabia adventures, attended as Arab Plenipotentiary, with authority also from the Syrian nationalists. The Zionist delegation stated its territorial demands for the Palestine Mandate-to-be to extend east of the Jordan River to the Hejaz Railroad. Feisal described these demands later as moderate and proper." In his own demands to the Peace Conference, Feisal expressly excluded Palestine because of the Jewish National Home policy adopted by the Allies, and he suggested a Mandate. He earlier had made an agreement with the Zionist leader Dr. Chaim Weiztnann envisioning Palestine as a future Jewish state. The Ottoman Empire discussions at Paris were not completed before the signing of the Treaty of Versailles, and continued at San Remo, Italy in April 1920. The Turkish Peace Treaty was drafted at San Remo simultaneously with the allocation of the three Mandates of Mesopotamia (now Iraq), Syria/Lebanon and Palestine. Mesopotamia and Syria were provisionally recognized as independent states in Article 94 of the Treaty, subject to Mandatory tutelage. The same was not accorded to Palestine in Article 95, which stated that the Mandatory would be responsible for putting into effect the Balfour Declaration, whose literal wording was incorporated into the Preamble to the Mandate for Palestine. Those words, as well as the most important Jewish National Home provisions of the Mandate, are as follows: [*]Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and [*] Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting (emphasis mine) their national home in that country; and... (Preamble) [*] The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic Conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble... (Art. 2) [*]An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognized as public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic social and other matters as may affect the establishment o the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine,. (Art. 4) [*] The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State land and waste lands not required for public purposes (Article 6) (emphasis added) An Italian attempt at San Remo to protect the national, as well as the civil and religious, rights of the "existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" was defeated. Lord Curzon, critical though he had been of the Balfour Declaration, preserved it recognition of only Jewish national rights in Palestine. At the same time, Britain and France negotiated the Northern border of Palestine, to the East as well as the West of the Jordan River, based on a Biblical atlas (remember Rueben, Gad and Menasheh)… They also used George Adam Smith’s “The Historical Geography of the Holy Land” as a reference (whomever has this book in his library please hold it as dear life for this book’s value is worth its weight in gold). Incidentally, this included the Golan Heights in Palestine, but the area was ceded to Syria in 1923. The Mandate was granted to Britain in April 1920. Sir Alec Kirkbride, once Palestine District Commissioner and in 1946 the first Minister to the new Kingdom of Transjordan, wrote in his 1956 book <A Crackle of Thorns>, quote:- [*] At the time of the issue of this Mandate, [there was no intention ... of forming the territory east o the River Jordan into an independent Arab State. [*]The Turkish Peace Treaty was initialed by Turkey at Sevres in August 1920 but not ratified, because of Kemal Ataturk' overthrow of the Turkish Government. On December 6, 1920, the British, who had already approved the Mandate, submitted it to the League of Nations for ratification. It contained the Jewish National Home provisions without protecting the political rights of the Arab population, and it applied to both Cis-Jordania (Western Palestine) and Trans-Jordania (Eastern Palestine). By that time, the Emir Feisal had been driven out of Syria. A Syrian National Congress had elected Feisal King of Syria on March 11, 1920. That was too much for the French, who forced him out of Damascus in July 1920. [*]In March 1921, a conference of senior British officials was convened in Cairo, chaired by Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill, in order to deal with the outstanding issues in the Middle East. In Mesopotamia (Iraq), where a rebellion had been going on for months, they installed Feisal as King. His older brother, Emir Abdullah, had come up into Trans-Jordan from the independent Hejaz (which would be seized in 1924 by the Wahhabi Ibn-Saud and become western Saudi Arabia). [*]Abdullah threatened to rally local Bedouin tribes for an attack on the French in Syria. [*]An idea was developed, supported by Britain's leading Arabist, Colonel T.E. Lawrence, who was in Cairo. It was to offer Abdullah the Governorship of the Trans-Jordanian Province of Palestine. In a wire to Prime Minister Lloyd George, Churchill stated that the solution would be the one insisted upon by the Prime Minister in a prior telegram, namely "while preserving Arab character of area and administration to treat it as Arab province or adjunct of Palestine." Churchill also stated that he expected Abdullah to refuse the Governorship because the territory was too small. Abdullah agreed to undertake the Governorship for six months, but he never left. Note the telegram's emphasis on continuing Trans-Jordan, Arab character and all, as part of Palestine. [*]Preserving the Arab character of Trans-Jordan was counter to the Jewish National Home provisions of the Mandate for Palestine, not yet ratified by the Council of the League or Nations. [*]So the British surreptitiously amended the Mandate for Palestine, principally by drafting a new Article 25 in April 1921. This was included in the Mandate ratified by the League of Nations in July 1922, which thereafter was never amended except by the British Government's Memorandum described below. [*]A great error is made regarding Article 25 and Trans-Jordan. It is even made by Zionists. It is the view that in 1922 three-fourths of Palestine was given to the Arabs, and thereafter Palestine was limited to the area West of the Jordan River [*]The opening words of Article 25 disprove this statement: In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, ... This proves that the land on both sides of the Jordan continued to be part of the Mandate for Palestine and that the eastern border of Trans-Jordan continued to be the eastern border or the Mandate. Article 25 allowed the British, with the consent of the Council of the League, to "postpone or withhold" but not to cancel application of certain provisions of the Mandate. On September 16, 1922, the Council approved a "Memorandum by the British Government relating to its application to Transjordan," and thereafter the quoted language was included in the Mandate's title. The Memorandum should always be read as part of the Mandate. Most copies of the Mandate unfortunately omit it. The Memorandum postponed or withheld application of the Jewish National Home provisions in "the Territory known as Transjordan, which comprises all territory lying to the East" from two miles West of Akaba on the Gulf of Akaba up the Jordan and Yarmuk River to the Syrian Frontier. But of the 28 articles of the Mandate, 19 in full and parts of 3 others continued to apply in Transjordan. The Jews continued to have legal rights there, including individual settlement, although in practice the British and the Arabs excluded all Jews. Indeed, the Jewish National Fund continued to own land in Transjordan until the late 1940's. All Palestinians (Jews and Arabs) East and West of the Jordan traveled with a passport issued by the High Commissioner in Jerusalem. Currency in Transjordan continued to contain the three official languages (English, Arabic and Hebrew) into the early 1950's. Abdullah's Governorship was subject to the authority of the Palestine High Commissioner in Jerusalem. He was counseled by British advisers headed by a Resident as representative of the High Commissioner. Thus, the promise of the Jewish National Home was withheld in Eastern Palestine, remaining in Western Palestine. Finally, on May 25, 1946, the national identity of the Palestinian Arabs was recognized, when Abdullah was proclaimed King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan. This proclamation was of doubtful legality. For example, in its presentations to the League of Nations (which existed until April 19, 1946) and the United Nations, the British falsely claimed that Palestine and Transjordan were separate Mandates, a falsehood now repeated by many who challenge the fact that Jordan is Eastern Palestine. But in 1955 Jordan (ten years later) was admitted to the United Nations. Its legality is thus accepted, and it is the Palestinian Arab Nation-State, or, stated another way, it is the Arab State in Palestine. The Jewish people are entitled to the land of Eretz Israel that is West of the Jordan River. The Arabs on the other hand have had their self-determination on 77% of the Mandate for Palestine East of the River now called Jordan since May 25, 1946… It is true that this part is ruled by the Arab Dynasty of the Hejaz, but notwithstanding all that, the Palestinian Arabs in Jordan forming 72% of the local inhabitants can have their state tomorrow if they wished it so.
The Emir Feisal, a son of the Hashemite Hussein, Sherif of Mecca, as well as a hero of the Lawrence of Arabia adventures, attended as Arab Plenipotentiary, with authority also from the Syrian nationalists... Feisal was a sell out.. He had no following in Arabia.. and TE Lawrence was disgusted that he'd been sent on a fool's errand with bad intelligence which is why he left Arabia after 6 months. Feisal was negotiating with the Zionists to give up Arab land for thrones in Iraq, Jordan and Syria for his sons and himself. He was also quite mad and given to tantrums and melt downs. When Feisal declared himself Caliph, he was chased off the Arabian peninsula within weeks.
There are some outstanding archeologists in the Israeli universities and they have known for a long time that Jerusalem was a whistle stop on the trade route.. It was small .. less than 30 acres and had a small population of maybe 3,000 and little water.
Why is anyone surprised when biblical "history" is challenged by the facts? Everyone has an argument in this clustermuck. But as Grau pointed out, Israel exists thru its military might and its multiple victories over their hostile neighbors who have wished their destruction even from before Al Naqba. The path to peace is blocked by intransigence on both sides of the conflict. Intransigent political issues, intransigent religious issues, intransigent economic issues, intransigent military issues. Without compromise there is no path forward. However, at this point, neither side seems all that amenable to making the hard choices.
At what time was Jerusalem: ".....less than 30 acres and had a small population of maybe 3,000 and little water." I'm sorry that people lost interest in this thread because archeology has always been one of my major interests & one of the main reasons I went wandering around the Mid East long ago. I was lucky enough to be allowed to do some grunt work on a couple of smaller archeological digs in southern Mesopotamia & the Levant, camp out in what was Babylon, get a closer look at Nineveh by a resident of Mosul, enjoy Beirut (aka "Paris by the Sea") before it was destroyed etc etc I can't think of a more likely place for there to be outstanding archeologists than in Israel where archeological treasures are safe from ISIL & everything but Right Wing ideologues posing as archeologists. For them, anything that can't be made to support their own Zionist/Hebrew mythology gets tossed. Among the many excellent books about the Crusades & Crusade era that goes into great detail about Jerusalem during the Crusades is "God's War" by Tyerman. I was surprised at how frequently Arabs fought beside Christians against other Christian or Arab King / Leader. It was just surprising to learn the number of Europeans who chose to stay in the region, went on to intermarry etc. Saladin's benevolence after his capture of Jerusalem was an equally impressive phenomenon for the era. Since my Post, here, in December, I've read differing estimates of the Sea level changes thousands of years ago & the discoveries yet to be made that could change much of what we currently accept as the true history of the Region. I'm not concerned about the professionalism & expertise of Israeli archeologists in presenting new discoveries that may change much of what are today's commonly accepted historical beliefs however, I am concerned at the probability of "inconvenient" new discoveries being repressed (or destroyed) given the extremism of Israel's current Right Wing political & Religious leaders. Thanks
