How the West eats its children

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Striped Horse, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    The below article outlines the current "Yellow Vest" movement in France that recently humiliated Macron. But the piece centres more on the neoliberal economic order that is controlled and directed by the US that was aimed at decapitating the Western middle class and the division of the world into two distinct parts.

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article2...k4UUg6w97cWyX3G5yWG2ZrqfVJp1XS-xTpgBX_iCtYhuo

    There are a few interesting linked articles in the above that I felt were relevant to a wider more general discussion. They follow:

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article197541.html

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article192722.html

    There is also the below on the background to the "Yellow Vest" movement:

    https://consortiumnews.com/2018/12/05/yellow-vests-rise-against-neo-liberal-king-macron/
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  2. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm a capitalist, but do not support the type of capitalism that are prevalent in many countries today. I believe corporations should be socially and environmentally responsible, especially in view of the exorbitant bonuses they pay their CEO's and billions in profits they make.
     
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  3. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    They are certainly an interesting read but sadly tainted by a derivative dystopian rant against the "establishment". Sadly these types of articles are now ten a penny and have been circulating for decades.
    One thing struck me though....
    That one sentence is more interesting than all the other content in the included texts you posted. However, it made me slightly angry as he postulates a transformation and then invites the concept of a statistical methodology (to which he has no answer) as a means of determining its voracity!! To me the world as we know it was changed with the likes of Alexander the Great or when Julius Caesar and Titus Labienus went on their tour of Europe with their Spanish legions or with the sociological change precipitated by the theological constructs of St. Paul as another example. So to conclude that sociological transformation is without precedent is naive and stupid. I would rather have read his thoughts on why he postulates no precedent indeed expands on the changes from the past and their relevance in terms of a modern dynamic rather than taking the easy way and dismissing the concept because of a lack of statistical tools. For an intelligent man that was all just a lazy derivative rant.
     
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  4. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    I'm exactly the same. I have no hangups about capitalism per se but I do have an absolute detestation of the unparalleled ideology of greed that represent the present world order that the US and the West is imposing on the world.

    Neoliberal economics is the most ferocious form of wealth re-distribution imaginable. That's why a handful of men own the wealth of half the world's population. It's an obscene ideology.
     
  5. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Yes, probably the best part of four decades I should think and perhaps they keep reappearing for good reason.

    I personally have little concern for rants against the Establishment. Generally speaking I consider rants are a democratic necessity because without repetitive criticism and other actions, the Establishment will just push ahead with what benefits their elite selves -- rather than working for the benefit of the people of the nation.

    And after all, it is the people who's needs and are supposed to be represented by their "representatives" if democracy is to be seen to be operative.
     
  6. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    That's because its corporatism not capitalism.
    Government furthering the goals of business, including giving the finance sector control of it's own money supply is light years removed from free market capitalism. Do we even need to bring up the ex-im bank that helped offshore our manufacturing base?
     
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  7. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    To a certain extent I would agree with you, however, their is a delicious irony in that the "people" demand bigger, better, faster, more and with that they also want it cheaper (for example)...they, these "people" you envisage, have created the demand which requires an agent to fulfil it. The agent in fulfilling that demand then becomes the object of the consumers...these "people".... their dissatisfaction. We then have writers (like your man here) massaging the dichotomy in terms of an "us and "them" when in fact they are the same thing. Man creates his own monsters and then rails against that which he has created. We can lament as much as we like the lose of some kind of say in our own parochial view or hark back to a construct of the world that usually starts with "I remember when..." but ultimately these "people" are the agents of their own demise.

    I think the writer has to consider balance in terms of how people want to interact with their own consumption profiles.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  8. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I agree with your analysis here.

    My take is that the "people's" appetite's have, over four decades or so, been designedly directed and denigrated and lowered so they come to accept this awful neoliberal economic model of consumerism as standard fayre.

    It was not always like this.

    But I do think people have been artfully manipulated so that their lowest impulses, greed, selfishness and the utter disregard for social well-being and cohesion have been elevated to become the governing non-principles and ethics-free culture that we now experience.

    In the last analysis, people can be manipulated and are. And their Shadow traits brought to fore, as imo, they have been. Unlike you, I don't blame people for their weaknesses --- we humans all have them as inherent traits - but I do blame those who have conducted the manipulation for their own selfish ends.
     
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  9. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    I'm not quite sure I do either but my thought process is shooting me down a route I'm trying to unravel...

    I have to disappear shortly for a lunch with some frightful Americans so can you just indulge me for a few hours? However, just thinking about this for a second, let's take Thierry Meyssan and the concept of the "yellow vests" in term of my thought process and leaving aside for the moment some of the more obvious issues, can we for the sake of argument agree that their intentions are pure and that they have a legitimate grievance? If so I will formulate my thoughts and then you can take issue or otherwise when I've disposed of my guests.
     
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  10. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    When exactly was this goden age where corporations were socially and environmentally responsible? When was there primary fiduciary responsibility not to stock holders? Was it the robber baron era perhaps?
     
  11. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    I'm beginning to see the Western model of globalism as using the template of the banana republic, writ large and with a few tweaks.
     
  12. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Multinational corporations are the modern day colonialists.

    They go to 3rd world/developing nations to exploit the resources and the people and take the wealth away while leaving nothing behind but their pollution.
     
  13. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think those protesting Macron's imposition of a neoliberal economic agenda are, if not pure, at least wholly understandable and supportable. Imo, we Brits should learn the lessons of the French and take out government to task in a similar way instead being so supine. If you remember over a million people turned up in London to protest Tony Blair's decision to go to war with Bush and America in Iraq. He ignored them and they went home and the UK went to war - and Blair became the smirking face of forever.

    I have a yellow vest and I think we all need to grow a pair when dealing with our government that certainly do not represent the wants or desires of the British people but bows to the City, big business and the Uber wealthy. This has to change.
     
  14. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    In America maybe this never was the case.

    But in other countries there was a time when governments were more socially responsible and representative and the citizenry were too.

    This all began to change when Margaret Thatchler came to power. She represented the interests of a few not the many and began unpicking social cohesion and instead elevated the interests of the City above all others. John Major and Tony Blair simply continued that process.

    And here we are today in a nation torn apart by Brexit because the political class and the elite now favour remaining in the EU in one form or another - and have their political and media shills working overtime to make this happen -- even though they apparently wanted to leave two years ago (HERE).
     
  15. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Morally I don't think there is much to disagree with, however, as I said I’m trying to unravel what to me is a fundamental dichotomy between aspirations and alienation. We are both UK citizens and residents and aware that the UK is undergoing much like the French a certain feeling of alienation (is that the right word?) or impotency in terms of our interaction with government, public services and business. The manifestation of this could be the desire to try and regain some form of control as in the Brexit decision. Is that an all encompassing rant against “big” government and “big” business?

    For me it begs a number of questions for example does business have a moral right beyond the law and beyond their duty to their shareholders to behave decently in a social sense? If so how does one define and enforce that? In other words has there been a loss of a shared sense of duty to others, to society as a whole. But more importantly does it matter? There is this “heroes” and “villans” culture in that we raise the spectre of Philip Green and BHS as villains raping shareholders and pension funds in order for him to enjoy the Monaco lifestyle and the superyachts. Then the heroes like Abramovich who open their wallets for a new set of football stars from… god knows what team. Both inhabit the same space but perceptions of them are distinctly different – is there an ethical difference in them in terms of the acquisition and use of their wealth? I would just say that I don’t yet want to look at topics such as the socialisation of loss and the privatisation of profit for example with the bank bailouts.

    I’m a nerd. I like building model aircraft. I have an airbrush from Germany, a compressor from Taiwan, paints from Spain, the models I buy come mostly from Japan and other bits and bobs from around the world. It’s not possible to go out onto the high street and buy any of this stuff locally anymore so I go to Amazon. Amazon has been in the press, like many big companies lately for seeming to avoid paying tax. I can order from Amazon and have parts and equipment delivered from around the world cheaper than it would take to source this stuff in the UK if at all. Do I care that Amazon is not paying taxes; no because the alternative is more effort, more money and less choice. Should I care that Amazon is not paying taxes? If we look at the state of social services here in the UK then yes I suppose I should, however, that framework within which these companies operate is beyond my understanding so when I hear journalists and politicians saying that they should pay billions in taxes because we have poor social services I have to stop and think…... does business have a moral right beyond the law and beyond their duty to their shareholders to behave decently in a social sense?

    The route I am travelling is this. There is a framework within which we allow companies to operate. However, in a very real sense there is no such thing as a “Company” it’s a legal fiction which is created so that individuals can co-operate collectively to create a good or service for a profit so that they create more value than they consume in the production process. So who do you want to hold accountable in a moral sense for the social responsibilities of that collective? Should we look at directors or board member for example or shareholder or workers or contractor or sub-contractor, suppliers for the answer?

    If we all stopped buying goods from Amazon, if I stopped fueling my inner nerd from Amazon what benefit would that bring? Vallejo in Spain would probable suffer a dramatic decline in their sale of acrylic paint or Harder and Steenbeck wouldn’t have the same market for their airbrushes; in essence they would suffer collectively and me personally. The “Yellow vests”' where do their clothes come from, how did they travel to their demonstrations, what did they eat when travelling there? They like most on this planet consume goods and services which for the most part are probably cheaper and more readily available than if they did not consume these items from manufacturers and suppliers that did not have access to an international free and easy flow of goods and services. Their lifestyle, their aspirations are provided by the very entities they are demonstrating against. That said I’m not suggesting in any way shape or form that they are hypocrites just that systems and logistics and supply chains in existence now are now so complex that to unravel them and reinterpret them into a more socially acceptable, morally responsible format means that they are probably tilting at windmills.

    Morally I’m not that comfortable with this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
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  16. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If we did eat our children, it would be with a cup of cheesy mayo, hot sauce, and a gallon of coke.

    Even eating something as healthy as free range human, we'd find a way to inject diabetes into it.
     
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  17. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thierry Meyssan. :roflol:

    Just what we've come to expect from Lord of the Troofers :psychoitc: and how can one not marvel at that moonbat's priceless pearls of idiocy:

    [​IMG]

    LMAO - The Onion couldn't make that sh*t up...:lol:
     
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  18. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Remember this anytime you hear a liberal advocating for freedom and prosperity. China is what they have in store for you.
     
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  19. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    The subject was corporations not countries
     
  20. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    The problem I see with big business and the uber-wealthy is the huge disproportionate influence they have over government versus the voting citizens. Democracy is one person one vote and I am strongly in favour that - even when a person or a political party is elected that I find questionable.

    This is a long shout from not buying from corporations like Amazon or objecting to trading with other nations or blocs. I'm all in favour of trading with others.

    But my buying a bottle of French wine or a German car or Spanish rice should not have the result of forcing my nation to become politically and legally (and sovereignly) a subject nation --- where I have no democratic rights to exercise. I don't know about you but I was one of those who voted during Ted Heath's time to join the Common Market back in what now seems like the middle ages. Back then there was zero thought of a United States of Europe. But I learned this was always the covert plan that the elite had in mind.

    On the yellow vests, each motorist in France has to have an emergency kit that includes a cheap (50 centimes) yellow emergency jacket. That's why these are used ---- everyone has them. The French has always been very organized and ready to protest against a government policy they regard as unfit for service or just unfair (as in the present case). As I understand it various French unions - like the Farmers union etc - act as the organisers for these protest events. My guess is that Macron's time may well be approaching its end as the protests are very large and ferocious and I doubt they will stop unless or until his reforms are cancelled.

    Being a long-term cynic I have little doubt that had May acted appropriately and with the an honest intention (she's a Remainer) following the Brexit vote, she could have settled a deal by now that works on several levels. But the EU has forced the back-stop to subject the UK to de facto perpetual EU sovereignty. This, clearly, has been designed to keep the UK in Europe for the purposes of the ultimate aim of a political United States of Europe.
     
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