I would like to point out the hypocrisy of the pro-abort position. Abortion is legal because of the privacy issue I think we can all agree on that. We have laws stating that abortion is a private matter between the woman and her doctor. So the law says a woman can abort because she owns her body, the choice is hers. Of course our laws puts stipulations on abortion. "Roe ruled (7-2) that though states did have an interest in protecting fetal life, such interest was not "compelling" until the fetus was viable (placing viability at the start of the third trimester).2 Thus, all state abortion laws that forbade abortion during the first six months of pregnancy were thereby invalidated. Third trimester abortions were declared to be legal only if the pregnancy threatened the life or health of the mother. The Doe verdict, however, defined "health of the mother" in such broad terms, that any prohibitions to 3rd trimester abortions were essentially eliminated.3 According to Justice Harry Blackmun's majority opinion, a woman's health includes her "physical, emotional, psychological, (and) familial" well-being, and should include considerations about the woman's age.4 "All these factors may relate to health," Blackmun argued, so as to give "the attending physician the room he needs to make his best medical judgment."5 In other words, if a woman is upset about her 3rd trimester pregnancy (psychological health), her doctor has the necessary legal basis to abort." Is abortion a woman's choice or not? How can law be made based on the privacy of a woman and make it her choice and then take that right away? The woman either owns her body....owns the right to make a choice or not. Our laws are totally hypocritical and based on the bias of the people who passed the laws and support them. Viability should not matter. I have debated this topic on this forum for years and have heard the excuses and the varied positions. Abortion should be legal until.......viability. When is viability? We are talking about allowing doctors to stop killing when the fetus becomes viable. Don't you think we should get that exact date and time when this happens right? There is no exact date. Pro-aborts disagree on this. Some say abortion should be illegal after 16 weeks...after 21 weeks.......24 weeks. What are these dates based on? Some pro-choicers say that ...that which is in the womb is not a human...that it's not a person....one poster here says all abortion should be legal with no restrictions. Pro-aborts are all over the place on this issue...But what is clear is that every person who wants abortion legal and wants to place into law restrictions on the woman's choice...has to realize that their position is hypocritical. This is logical. There is debate to whether life starts at conception. Although I have provided much evidence from non-biased medical sources...the majority of pro-aborts do not believe this. A woman does not hire an abortionist to kill their child at conception. Women don't know at this exact time that they are even pregnant. Most abortions happen after the heart has started beating 20 days after conception...when they know by tests that a new life has been conceived. Does all of this matter? Based on the pro-choice/abort position, NO, it should not matter. Why? It is the woman's choice, her decision alone. I am told I have no right to impose my bias, beliefs, position on other women. Does not matter what I base my decision on (science, religion)...I have no right. They tell me to do something they don't do when they say they are against late term abortion. Ok for them...not for me? Canada has no restrictions I am aware of when it comes to abortion. There are no legal restrictions on abortion there. I am fighting to ban abortion across the board. I do not believe any woman has the right to kill a living human life in the womb. I am clearly in the minority on this board as there are only about three posters I can think of that are pro-life..the rest pro-abortion. I find it odd that the group here...(all hypocritical positions but one poster) does not fight for women's rights..the kind of rights women are allowed in Canada. If there is nothing wrong with abortion, then why not embrace the position and fight for all women not based on your bias or morality. Stand up to the plate. And if there is something wrong with abortion...why not stand up against it? Just don't say....someone does not have to right to impose their beliefs on a woman as pro-lifers do...and then turn around and deny women the rights to their body, to decide for themselves about abortion. The position spells H Y P O C R I T I C A L. My questions .... Why don't pro-abort want to change our laws in America to make them more like the ones in Canada? Does Canada have it wrong? We both can't be right. Either a woman has the right to her body..totally... or she does not. Why are some pro-aborts so afraid to even discuss this issue? What is so taboo about late term abortion? And how is what I pointed out here not hypocritical? I would ask that if someone is afraid to state their opinion as to what their stance is and...to honestly discuss this issue then don't jump in on the conversation. It is not fair to those discussing this...to not know how a person stands. How do you have an honest discussion with someone when you don't know how they stand on the issue? You can't. And I think if someone comments or gives a poster a high five...they are fair game to ask.
"""Our laws are totally...""(blah, blah, blah)""... ""based on the bias of the people who passed the laws and support them."""" Yup, that's how things have always been done in the good old USA! Too bad you hate it so much....why don't you move to Canada , the country you think is right, no hypocrisy there? I think someone who does something for their convenience and then wants to outlaw it for others.......spells H Y P O C R I T I C A L. "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi
I hope everyone comes in here states and clarifies their position. That would be nice wouldn't it? Perhaps you could ask a range of questions like; 1. Are you pro-choice or pro-life? 2. If you are pro-life do you believe women should be allowed to have an abortion under certain circumstances? (i.e. health/life/rape/incest etc.) If you are pro-choice do you believe abortion should be restricted at any point in a woman's pregnancy? (i.e. Late term/2nd trimester/3rd trimester/24 weeks/viability etc.) 3. Why do you make certain exceptions? or, Why do you think there should be certain restrictions on abortion? And then I suppose go from there in the discussion. I am sure you can think of more questions that would help clarify people's positions.
I suppose you have a point. Perhaps rather than compromising to allow for limitations on abortion......they should have simply decided to allow it for everyone, everywhere, at anytime. Would that have made you happier?
Roe did not state that. Roe stated that states MAY, if they choose, ban third trimester abortion, except in instances of a threat to health or life of the woman. Roe did not make any abortions illegal.
Having already answered this ridicules item on a number of occasions and given my reasons I really cannot be arsed to do so again. The fact that you consider me a hypocrite is about as relevant as a rain drop in the sea, hypocrisy to me is someone who tries to stop another doing something they have themselves done .. remind you of anyone?
we agree on that.... ..I think someone who does something for their convenience and then wants to outlaw it for others.......spells H Y P O C R I T I C A L.
No, hypocrisy is availing yourself of the procedure when it suits you but then turning around and trying to deny other women the choice to have one. I am against it being illegal at any stage and in my country, there are no laws prohibiting it.
BUT THE THING IS....your position is hypocritical if you want to deny a woman a late term abortion, that IS WHAT YOUR DOING. If I want abortion made illegal...why on earth would I move to a place where you can kill on demand anytime. You want to deny women choice....you want to deny them access the their own bodies, right? Or am I wrong?
I have already made a thread for that and people, the ones who run from questions...would not state theirs. You have no problem stating yours...what so difficult about it? I was clear about the intent of the thread. "Any pro-abort could answer yes to pro-life. You can't be pro-abortion, want abortion legal and be pro-life in this area. So the question is irrelevant IMO. Pro-choice means you allow women to choose. They question I have asked is...why if your pro-choice...do you then want to deny the woman the right to abortion in late terms. I have asked these questions. In fact I have asked them so many time to deaf ears that its called harassment I am told. The fact is some people DO NOT WANT TO ANSWER THEM. They will make comments and discuss...but won't answer. So I guess you can't ask something twice to the same person. Why can't I ask...simply....WHAT IS YOUR POSITION ON THE LEGALITY OF ABORTION. This question is a no brainer for those who are confident enough in their position to just state it.
But you want to stop women from doing what you don't think is moral am I right? Yes or no You want to deny them the right to abort. You said this.... So here lies the hypocrisy. You see that at some point abortion is immoral that the life in the womb should have rights. So you are saying these rights trump that of the grown woman. At this point she loses the right to her body and the right to choose. And you do not see the rights of the innocent life in the womb whose mother was raped. Our laws are written so vaguely that the health of the mother...could be great emotional stress. So abortion in these cases are acceptable to you. And when is the point..exact point when the unborn gets rights? How would you determine this is each individual woman?
Nothing to do with morals as explained to you oh so many times before .. I base my position on what medical science tells us and that is that a fetus cannot survive outside of the womb prior to 21 weeks, as far as I am concerned that is when a fetus becomes a person with all the rights of a born person. when you can (finally) get over that not everyone adheres to your belief that there is a "person" from the moment of conception then you might, just might, see a little clearer. It is only hypocrisy to you because of your belief that there is a "person" from conception, where as my opinion is that there is not a "person" until the fetus has a chance of surviving detached from the life support system of the female .. up until that point the fetus displays characteristics of a parasite-like entity and therefore in my opinion the woman is the only one who should be able to make that choice. As to rape and incest then I support abortion, the woman has suffered enough without having to endure 9 months extra. They are only written vaguely (specifically for abortion) because of the pro-life lobby groups who will try anything to get their religious dogma made into law. Already answered you question .. numerous times .. and explained why my position is what it is, if it hasn't sunk in yet then it never will.
*shrugs* I dunno. I have a hard time getting answers out of other users sometimes too, certain users I debate with like to answer questions with questions. It's rather irritating and stupid. (And it's not you btw, you have not generally done this that I can recall, we both seem like pretty straightforward types of people actually lol.) It becomes harassment when you keep asking them in other threads where that is not what the OP is about. The OP here is clearly about clarifying one's position on the issue so it cannot be constituted as harassment as people are free to come in and answer it if they so choose. It is when you stalk people thread to thread and ask that same question which is irrelevant to what is being discussed at the moment.
You do not get what I am saying...you DON'T see it. Whatever your reasoning...and Pasithea would agree with me I think...just won't admit it...that your position is still hypocritical based on why you want abortion legal to begin with. You... even based on what medical science says..(and they say a humans life begins at conception) have no right to deny a woman the choice to abortion. You are tying her hands behind her pregnant stomach...based on what you think should be right. I believe that life and the unborns rights should start at conception. You say I have no right....yet you have a right to tell a woman....NO make the choice for a woman concerning her body and her life and future. It is complete hypocrisy.
"""It is complete hypocrisy""""" SO? As long as abortion is legal that opinion doesn't matter at all....law matters....
WE are and that is why I believe it or not respect your posts...I might find them disgusting and vile...concerning the unborn...but you are consistent..you state your position and it is easily understood. The majority dance around and hide behind excuses. So I do appreciate you being straightforward. About stalking. The thing that bothers me is this....everyone does it. I don't even go to all the abortion threads. So I don't follow people around. Look at the history of where people go...I probably go to the fewest threads. How do people keep up with everything I don't know. Abortion is a subject that flows from subject and topic easily....everything is relatable...and everyone does it...goes off track, strays off topic. The hypocrisy of abortion that I talk about here...relates to everything because it addresses positions...in this case the pro-aborts hypocritical position. I am not talking about you. I find it odd that people have such a hard time just answering a yes or no question. I mean most things we discuss are not new...they have been hashed around hundreds of times by the same people. I started the thread so people could state their positions...and NOT DISCUSS. But it seems the threads I start are attacked by those who don't like the questions. Then people get off topic and its unfairly shut down..happens almost...every time. I did this because I forget sometimes the entire position that someone holds. I figured it would be a place people could refer to...to see what someone believes instead of repeating it over and over. I do go to another site and there are a few here that I know have accounts there...It is confusing and so are positions sometimes. But the fact I started a thread that would pin them down was to hard for some pro-aborts to take. I do not follow people around...no more than people follow me around. But when I see someone enter a thread and then high five their friends and avoid the questions but enter in the conversation...it is bothersome. The rules say.... "IF YOU DONT WANT TO DISCUSS THE TOPIC, DONT POST IN THE THREAD!" That is self explanatory....if you don't want to discuss late term abortion...don't enter it...and tease those who are in it. If you do you should be fair game.
If it's NOT about a person why do YOU discuss what another person thinks......why do YOU get to tell people what they think but want to report those who do the same to you???....Gee, it's just so hypocritical.....
Bolding in first quoted post, mine. It's not about you....until YOU decide to go off topic and discuss you... LOL!
And I appreciate your straightforwardness as well. I can tell we both have a strong dislike for those who dance around the question. I agree with most everything you have said. Still I think we have a right to like posts and not respond to the topic if we don't want to. I like to lurk a lot and there are many other forums I lurk in but don't really care to post in, Gun Control forum and Religion/Philosphy forum are a couple I like to skim through but not really say much in. If I see a post that I liked a lot I will like it, but I still won't post. Sometimes there are just some parts of the post that I like too and I will like the post but then also give a rep and make a mention of the part of the post I liked and why directly to them. I also agree in that I think some of who I like to call the "pro-choice-but types" are rather hypocritical in stating that a woman owns her body and can do what she likes with it but then say she shouldn't be free to abort in the third trimester for elective purposes. However I also realize that illegal or not women are simply not choosing abortion in the third trimester for elective reasons, at that point they want to give birth but should something go horribly wrong they might need an abortion so this is a non-issue for me and in fact most of us choicers. Considering that I don't make it my personal agenda to run around and force them to adhere to my own viewpoint, not to mention I just don't care. Opinions are just opinions here and the most I can hope for is that by arguing my viewpoint clearly that they will read it and perhaps change their own to reflect mine similarly. I hope I have made myself clear in that now.
I quote: The majority of pro choice posters have not had an abortion. The OP has, which makes her statement above hypocritical, and invalidates the entire OP.
My post above discusses your position on the subject, and politely points out that your position is hypocritical despite accusing others of the same.
So what your saying is that...anyone who has changed their position on anything in life...is a hypocrite? So take Obama his stance on gay marriage. He ran on the position that he believed that marriage was between a man and a woman. He was a politician and voted to deny this right to gays. Is he a hypocrite? Is he allowed to change his mind? Should a parent who possibly did drugs when they were a teenager...be a hypocrite if they deny that same right to their children? I had an abortion. I made a horrible mistake and have since changed my position. I would not wish on my worst enemy even those who post on this forum...what I went through as far as emotional depression. Now you won't understand that because your pro-abortion and you have never had one but presumes to know how most abortive women feel. It does not invalidate the question. Your in this thread replying. The rules say..."IF YOU DON’T WANT TO DISCUSS THE TOPIC, DON’T POST IN THE THREAD!" If what you think I, ME....DID WAS WRONG....and the thread as you say invalidates itself...then why are you here posting? To rub it in...what? What is your motive?
You are clear and have always been clear as you stand by your position and the position is not hypocritical. We disagree....our positions are night and day, but I respect the way you operate and that you admit to your motives. You are clearly unlike the rest. I can't force anyone to do anything...and seriously I have to admit I get a kick out of those who won't answer. I know why they don't...and like you it does not matter...not really. Silence is golden and when someone continuously does not answer...that answers the question.
I get what you are saying totally, you consider me to be a hypocrite due to my opinion on abortion .. I do not and it has never bothered me that you do. I also see your position as being hypocritical due to your own experiences on this subject. I have never said you don't have the right to your opinion, I just don't happen to believe your opinion is right - along with the majority of US people. You only see this situation as a black or white answer where as I don't .. I just happen to beieve that there is a point in a pregnancy where the fetus should attain the same rights as a born person, not really different from yours apart from the timescale. So if you want to call me a hypocrite got right ahead, as your personal opinion on my personal position isn't really relevant to me in any way, shape or form.
