I acknowledge my White Privlege. How do we deal with it?

And ambivalence is as good as it gets. Our friends need to spend some time in far less tolerant societies, to find out what it's like to have no ambivalence.

 

How about Indian-American moms? They worry about their sons too - but they worry about grades, getting into the best colleges, and whether their future daughters-in-law will be from good families. Very few worry about their sons being whacked by the neighbours or the PoPo. How about Nigerian moms? Or Kenyan moms? I know an American family from both of those African groups, and they spend very little time worrying about their sons being caught up in the culture which attracts unwanted attention. Their sons are too busy studying to be doctors, helping their MARRIED parents with chores around the house, and practising piano and violin.

Good character (ie, unlikely to commit a crime, do drugs, mix with trashy people, etc etc) is easily discerned by those we encounter, within a nano-second. It's in every fibre of our being - the way we speak, our manners, our civility, our politeness, our purposeful effort to be seen as an honourable, honest member of society ... etc etc. If random strangers on the street can detect these things at a glance, those trained to respond rapidly to such cues (POLICE) can do so in half a glance.

Race should be no impediment to the safe progress of a non-white person in America. In fact it IS no impediment according to the statistics .. which puts whites second to non-whites in the success rankings.

 

I agree ambivalence is likely the reasonable goal on a societal level. On a personal level I think we can do better than ambivalence as individuals. Just my opinion though I’m certainly no expert on the subject. Just someone who still can’t figure out the hate and animosity. Seems like a ridiculous waste of energy better spent on something else...

 

Aafter that husband, she had a long term relationship with another Black man.
You know what the say: "Once you go Black, you never go back".

 

What a beautiful fairy tale. You make it sound as if we live in a colorblind society. Sadly, we don't.

 

Sometimes market solutions work. Dr. King had good results with the Montgomery Bus Boycott.
If the protests going on now create racism, then the racism was just below the surface anyway.
Lots of people are tired of bowing down to the bigotry of the "Joes" in this country. That's what the protests are about. I don't have an answer. But, I believe race relations in the USA are going to be different when the dust settles.

 

The best way of dealing with inequalities of the past is to ensure that everyone has the oppurtunity to get a good job and make a life for themselves.

 

You and your ilk prove that every day because all you see is race

 

And you would be lying if you told me that you don't see race.

 

Of course I do. But I don’t sit here and obfuscate that fact with arguments about how racism and discrimination is wrong while advocating for racism against others... and then have the audacity to claim I’m doing it in the name of equality.

 

Colourblindness on the personal level, should be our default. Anyone who tells you colourblindness isn't cool, wants you to care about race - and we both know what caring about race makes us. Starts with an R, and ends with a T.

 

"To people who are accustomed to privilege, equality looks like oppression".

That's what I thought of when I read your post.

 

That just makes it worse. The goal is for black kids to grow up in whole, intact, stable marriages. Just as it is for all those Indian, Asian, Nigerian, Kenyan etc families.

Though I agree on your second sentence - I'm no fan of white boys! I do have a weakness for the Ginger, though .. something I apparently share with every race

 

We do live in a mostly colourblind society (there will always be racists on both sides .. and you know quite well just how brutal the racism is on 'our' side). However we don't live in the fairy-tale of character/culture-blindness. It's our character/culture, manifest in the face we present to the world, and our behaviour, which dictates how a multicultural society will respond to us.

 

And the best way to ensure THAT, is to provide the tools for it. Those tools are public education, public libraries, public healthcare, and merit-based advancement through education and employment.

Feed the fish, or teach how to fish. One is hate, the other is love.

 

Sometimes society responds to your skin color before it responds to character, culture or behavior. I wish this wasn't true, but it is.

 

The only whites who always see race, are your 'allies', dear. They're the ones who can't think of you as a real person. You're just a caricature to them .. a symbol of something they believe about themselves.

 

Sometimes, yes, but not often. My Kenyan friends are darker than most African Americans, and they are almost always treated with great respect. They're very distinguished, well spoken, and have exceptionally gracious manners. They give off a distinct impression of superiority and aristocracy as a result - so much so that even the most hillbilly of whites automatically defer to them.

It's far more about how the world perceives us in character, than it is about our actual colour.

 

I basically agree with you. I believe that public education is part of the problem. Public education can often be so impractical for jobs. Many kids of color know this and so don't really care about school. Others will get some useless degree hoping it will get them out of poverty when it actually doesn't. We need to make schools more practical about teaching life skills in high school and exclusively job skills in college.

For example, a computer science degree will land you with a decent job right out of college. But you often have to take these general fluff classes. We could truncate it to a 2 year degree, and then add another year of actual software classes.

 

We need a Dr. King type personality today.

You and I want the same thing. Neither of us can fully understand the perspective of the other. But I know personally a handful of people losing patience with the current narrative. These are people who not only believe we are created equal, but that our differences complement each other and when recognized in a positive light make us all stronger. People who have in the past vocally, and by their example, advocated for making Dr. King’s “dream” a reality. Today they are growing weary of being labeled as white supremacists or bigots because of their skin color, religious affiliation, or political persuasion. We can’t expect it to be inconsequential to call everyone a racist without evidence, or with evidence to the contrary. The painting with the broadest brush one can find is counterproductive.

I suggest we collectively kick Joe in the gonads instead of making his bigotry sustainable. Perhaps you or someone else can persuade me that what we’ve been doing for the last 20 years is working. But I maintain, using the protests and riots as empirical evidence, it isn’t working. Neither of us have perfect answers today. Let’s build on that agreement to find solutions workable for everyone that don’t further alienate those who’ve been on the right side of history all along.

I believe race relations will be different as well. I just fear they will be worse, or that any improvement will be merely superficial because it’s a result of virtue signaling, shaming, or force and not the result of exchanging a heart of stone for one of flesh.

 

I’m on board with that.

 

Sad to say BUT if we treated everybody, regardless of race, sex, color or religion, as the aholes they probably are we would be better off.

 

1) Yes, we do need another Dr King. He did a lot of good, But he was killed by those who feared change.
2) I know there are many people who believe we are all created equal and who want what is best for Blacks and other people of color. The problem is that racism is a systemic monster. In order to make things truly equal, the system needs to change. You and I see the race question differently because we have experienced life differently. You as a White male and me as a Black female. Growing up Black in America, race is never far from your mind---society doesn't allow you to forget.
Dr. King had a beautiful dream. But, here we are more than 50 years after his assassination, and not much has changed. If nothing is done, things will be the same 50 years into the future.
3) I don't believe what we've been doing for the last 20 year's is working. If anything race relations have gotten worse in recent years; that's why we're having protests in the street right now.
I believe race relations will be better when the dust settles. If not, this country may not be a comfortable place to live in. Because I think certain people want change and they want it now. Fredrick Douglass, the great abolitionist, said, "Power concedes nothing without a demand". He was right. And the demand is being made as we speak.

 

In my opinion what made his message great was the avoidance of violence. That is what we need today.

What specifically do you see as the problem in the system? What specifically needs to change? I believe affirmative action is now counterproductive. It was responsible for denying me a couple career paths as a young man. I harbor no animosity but I know a couple guys who had their life dreams and ambitions dashed as a result of the same thing I experienced.

Police brutality seems to be a hot issue now. I fervently support cleaning up law enforcement agencies. It could happen quickly if we worked together. But a concerted effort can’t be mounted if it’s all about race. As far as I know race isn’t proven to be a factor in the Floyd case. Correct me if I’m wrong. The cops were poorly trained ***holes and were as likely to kill anyone else as they were Floyd. A young man we had considered doing business with was shot and killed by law enforcement in our community recently. He was unarmed and not an immediate threat. Trust me, I have no unearned respect for LE any longer. But I and others have a hard time getting on board this current movement because it’s not predicated on correct statistical analysis. The data clearly shows authoritarian policing is the systemic problem, not systematic racism. My statement here does not imply there are not racist cops. There are. And always will be. What I’m saying is the battle that needs to be fought is against bad cops. And the army that can be assembled to fight that battle is orders of magnitude larger than BLM alone.

A possible solution to the policing problem is better training. I listened to this podcast the other day. There are some good points by the guest on the unpreparedness of LE to deal with physical altercations.

I felt 20 years ago we were on the right track and could see the light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately I believe there are those who want the racism and animosity to be a constant. I can tell their efforts to keep hate alive are working by reading this forum. I think one key to ending racism is ending the constant attempts to link racism with politics. Being a conservative or a liberal in my experience doesn’t have bearing on whether one is racist or not.

I hope things get better. I just want to caution that making demands of demographics who are innocents and non combatants will not produce positive results. Everyone please consider targeted strikes and avoid carpet bombing your potential allies.

 

I'm not sure I agree that public education isn't working. It's well suited to its task - to cover everyone and everything.

I also seriously doubt that black kids disregard school because they don't approve of the curriculum. I suspect it's far more a result of parents who don't care about education. Consider that every public school (even the worst) produces academic high achievers .. and those kids will have ONE thing in common - parents who care about education. Not money, or luck, or talent, or good looks .. just plain old determination and a strong work ethic. Two things which can only come from parental modelling and guidance.