I don't understand why schools don't lock the doors

Not sure how that’s relevant.

 

Isn’t it a bit authoritarian to require usage of a key to enter the school? Hand over your guns and get out of here with that nonsense!

/s

 

Good points.


I agree there isn’t one root cause. There are many contributing factors.

It is true the US has more firearms than other countries. Here is a short list of other things the US has more of on average than other countries that are known to be associated with violence, decreased cognitive development, and suicidal behavior in young people.

1) Sugar consumption
2) Sedentary behavior
3) Obesity
4) Affluence
5) Meals eaten alone and out of the home
6) Media that glorifies violence—example of what that means: https://www.medialit.org/reading-room/media-violence-japan-vs-america

7) Time spent indoors (less time in nature)
Infant antibiotic use

 

Also good points. This is the conversation, not ban all guns, and not thoughts and prayers.

Neither team cares about solving this with real solutions.

 

I thought you were saying all law is criminal law.

Bazaar as it sounds it was adjudicated as an accident.

But few current gun purchasers have.

I always wondered how many "umpteeth" (did you mean umpteeNth) was; good to know umpteenth = 2

TODAY'S laws have failed, for the most part, to prevent school shootings. I don't think you can reasonably claim they don't prevent ANY other shootings.

I think I do support "actions" that "MIGHT" prevent shootings, "YOU" just won't hear of it.

Correct no State that I know issues licenses to shoot up a school.

We've "had federal gun law gong back to 1934, which established "Type II" weapons and required them to be registered. The laws we have don't seem to be curbing mass shootings. But laws that require training and competence haven't been tried, so NO; "we don't know that".

And another is to close your mind to new possibilities.

Yes it had, I'm only 71, The National Firearms Act was passed in 1938, 13 years before I was born. I think lobbying was going strong a long time before 1938.

My point is, unless you go to their website and dig down, most people, today, wouldn't know the NRA did any training.

The point of Aff's pic is (if that's not a school) that's where we are heading. HOW do you propose we "take young sociopaths out of society" when funding for mental health in all states is being cut year upon year?

There is now way you can objectively make that claim because NO research on gun violence has been done since the NRA successfully lobbied to have all gun violence research funding eliminated.

How the NRA Suppressed Gun Violence Research
During the 1990s, the NRA used its influence over NRA member and Arkansas Rep. Jay Dickey to insert an amendment into the federal spending bill that has effectively prevented the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) from funding any research on gun violence.
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/how-nra-suppressed-gun-violence-research

 

If it were to be solved, one of the most valuable divisive political tools in the US would be gone. Not going to happen. I think there are about a half dozen PF members who reject the false dichotomous approach to the issue. All we can do is emphasize the facts. It’s pointless to argue with people who say gun rights advocates love guns more than children or people who think more guns solves the propensity to violence problem.

Anyway, nice to talk to someone who’s interested in a systems approach to reducing violence.

 

Not worth responding to any of it. It would be akin to pissing into the wind. You are entitled to your opinions. We disagree as usual.

 

OR, could it be I countered your every point, and you don't have a response? At a minimum it appears this topic isn't worth doing the research to support your point of view.

 

I believe black and white thinking is just easier for the intellectually lazy. It takes brain power to try to see an issue from all sides. It angers me that this country is going to go down because we celebrate lazy thinking.

 

well I'm betting most schools these days have Windows and you can enter in through Windows especially if you have a gun you should if you holding it knock it out it's typically safety glass. And just having one door is a bit of a fire hazard. I think that's why they quit designing them that way.

There have to be windows on the doors so that when you swing the door open you can see if there's anyone behind it.

[QUOTE[
Fast forward a few decades, and my own kids are in school. All the doors are locked on the outside and can only be opened from the inside. There's one open door, and it's to the office, where you have to sign in and get a badge.

So, why is this not implemented in every school in the country? It's maddening to listen to all the kvetching about guns, but this is a super-easy-to-implement, cost effective solution.

Someone help me understand why counties aren't insisting that random armed strangers not be allowed to roam around school unchallenged.[/QUOTE]
I think you're on to something here there are a lot of things that should be done regarding schools and security. First I think every classroom should have two points of exit if it only has one entrance that's fine but it should have two exits. I think there should be an automatic lock that any teacher or staff member can activate if they see or hear gunfire. The door should be able to be open from the inside but not from the outside.

I'm perfectly okay with the idea of an armored door so children have a place to hide.

I'm not the kind of person to think that the best idea is arming teachers. If we do such a thing as having armed staff in school I think that should be a dedicated position. They considered a desk right in front of the doors. But forget about that I think a few design improvements on schools a few renovations and modifications would make things better.

I think the reason why these situations are so incredibly deadly is because they are unexpected.

 

The ability to get a google degree in 10 minutes about a topic you knew nothing about yesterday, isn’t helping. We no longer even trust intellectuals. It’s considered a flaw.

“I read a paragraph on a website that agrees with everything I believe.” More valuable than someone with a doctorate who has been practicing the topic for 30 years.

 

Of course all schools have physical fire drills 2 to 4 times a year with unlocked doors to the outside.

 

With locked doors they're much more likely to burn up even though less likely to be shot by a mass shooter.

 

Locked doors didn't save anyone at Sandy Hook.

 

Uhhh, what? Did you read one sentence of the entire thread and jump to conclusions.

In my OP, I was very clear that locked on the outside doesn’t prevent people from leaving. Have you seriously never gone through a handle bar door? WTF. I had them in kindergarten, in 1971.

it would be completely illegal to lock kids IN a school.

So, again, what is the relevance of your point?

 

I never claimed it would solve all shootings. Sheesh.

Good is NOT the enemy of perfect.

Your home will likely not be broken into tonight, so why lock your door? Serious question.

 

Locked doors didn't save anyone at Sandy Hook.

 

I don't lock my doors. Never have.

 

Just a thought... I am not sure where the door was located to the truck crash site... As the door propped open was in the close time line as the crash happened and then the teacher called 911... If the crash was visible from the door I see no reason the teacher did not go out a self locking door, propped it open so she would not be locked out investigating the crash... so she could re-enter to make the call? But again I am not sure the location of the propped door.

 

If your neighbor got murdered and another neighbor got robbed, would you consider it?

 

So your point is that if a clever criminal creates a distraction, then it’s okay to break protocol?

I would walk through fire to ensure my kids were safe. Walking around the building to get back in seems like the least someone could do.

 

Could it be that someone is concerned elementary school children might not know how to push the push bars in a fire?

I don't think so, not even kindergarteners don't know that. OTOH that would explain why those doors are kept unlocked.

I NEVER recall schools being unlocked and this goes back to 1955.

 

1971 for me.

I have clear memories of things like learning left from right in kindergarten. This training includes emergency procedures, which start getting pounded into our heads from day 1.

In Chicago, it was tornado and fire drills. Fire drills includes understanding how a door that only opens one way, works.

We have grown adults, who consider themselves smart, who can’t grasp that locked on one side doesn’t mean the other side is locked.

 

Of course not.