'I Feel Duped on Climate Change'

Brilliant. Fifty million climate refugees in Bangladesh, and that's offset by more sheep in Iceland.

 

See, you wish to somehow put the world in stasis which is impossible. It will change no matter what we do. You seem to think that just because man planted himself in one spot, that spot will never change. I hate to tell you this, but many things conspire against that and all are natural.

All you have to do is study the past to see that warmer temperatures means more abundant life.

 

Wrong. Some are human-caused. The current change in the climate is one of them.

All you have to do is study the past to see that every mass extinction in geological history is linked to rapid climate change.

 

OR proof of punishment from Yahweh for disobeying Matthew 6:6 and instead organizing big prayer events as Mohammad instructed.

Last I checked, the Islamic world is riddled with deserts.

 

So now you also claim to know the causes of extinction events even though they are still debated in the scientific community?

 

Real productive of crops aren't they?

I am still missing any point you are trying to make

 

Yes we do know the reasons why there have been previous changes - although the fine details specific to each change are still being debated

That is a far cry from believing that the current change is caused by fairy dust

 

Proof of Yahweh and not proof of global warming of course.

(Note: I am not a climate change denier )

 

So far you are the only one mentioning fairy dust.

 

Well there has to be some explanation as to why the climate is changing

The scientific community has done thousands individual research projects into what the causes might be, solar, cosmic rays, orbital changes, volcanic activity etc etc and they have crossed off the other influences one by one

Knowing that CO2 DOES emit absorb and emit radiation, knowing that the Co2 level is rising, knowing that man is buying more than 80 million barrels of oil per day.........

This is like finding a mass murderer standing over a victim with a dripping knife in his hand and then telling everyone he is innocent because it could have been someone else to came into the room killed the victim and then disappeared without leaving a trace

 

Seems to me the only explanation you will accept so far is that only man changes the climate and everything else is fairy dust.

 

Not only man changes the climate. Nature can change the climate too.

But for the current climate change, man is responsible.

1. Orbital forcing: causes the ice ages, but has been cooling the planet for the last 6000 years.
2. Solar effects: reached a peak in 1958 and has been declining since then.
3. Ocean cycles: can only warm the surface by cooling the depths; but the depths have been warming too.
4. Volcanoes: can cool the planet, but can't warm it.

Meanwhile,

5. Greenhouse gases: continuing upward at a relentless pace.

 

Have you got an alternative explanation?

I have asked you this repeatedly and your reply is only that it is not man or anything currently known

But if you do have an alternative please share it with us

 

Most of your points are in error or have errors in them (see rebuttals). Please show sources for each, not a entire page specific sources, you know a paragraph where your claims are made or a cut and past series of points. Otherwise if is hearsay and not very useful for debate.

(1) 1. Orbital forcing: causes the ice ages, but has been cooling the planet for the last 6000 years.
(1) Rebuttal I am not sure what you mean by that you say orbital effects have been cooling the planet and causing ice ages, (despite CO2 emissions) Your words contradict your point.

2. Solar effects: reached a peak in 1958 and has been declining since then.
(2) Rebuttal; The effects of Solar activity are debatable, however we have cause to celebrate ; Earth facing a mini-Ice Age 'within ten years' due to rare drop in ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Earth-facing-mini-Ice-Age-years-rare-drop-s...
Jun 16, 2011 – A decrease in global warming might result in the years after 2020, the approximate time ... Earth has warmed as solar activity has decreased

(4)4. Volcanoes: can cool the planet, but can't warm it.

Rebuttal ; Earth Differentiation
www.indiana.edu/~geol105/images/gaia.../earth_differentiation.htm
Modern volcanoes release gases as magma is brought to the surface. ... This may have been an important way the early Earth was warmed - astronomers ..

I am not saying we should not be somewhat cautious in our greenhouse gas producing activities. However, It should be evident to all but the most naive dense bipedal's on earth and abroad that puny man does not wreak the havoc that the hysterical global warming trolls have been screaming about. I think barring some unforeseen untainted evidence that man really is destroying the climate by heating up the earth we should focus on repairing our economies and raising our standard of living by using fossil fuels like they were going out of style, well they are! Unless you really like to petal your way to work and everywhere else and burn up in the summer and freeze in the winter while paying outrageous energy (carbon) taxes for the privilege of living in third world conditions I highly suggest we take action now. We should use fossil fuels responsibility while improving slightly the current population controls.

reva

 

Try;

Global Warming - Global Warming Facts and Global Climate ...
www.greatglobalwarming.com/
Recent global temperature measurements that there has been NO global warming .... Scientists who have been studying the Sun and Solar Activity are beginning to think that ..... The earth has warmed and cooled in cycles for millions of years.

Evidence for Global Warming
by[ Larry Vardiman, Ph.D.

Introduction

Excerpt; The global warming issue will not go away. Evidence continues to mount that some type of warming is occurring, maybe temporarily or of longer duration. But, is it caused by man and can anything be done about it? Environmental activism to reduce carbon dioxide emissions has reached a new intensity. The U.S. Supreme Court is being asked to rule on a suit which demands that the Environmental Protection Agency regulate the release of carbon dioxide as part of its air pollution responsibility. "

This site may be rejected because its a biblical think tank. However its the most moderate conclusion on the entire Google page and allows that;

"Conclusions and Recommendations

So, what can we conclude? I believe it is safe to say that:

Global warming appears to have been occurring for the last 30-50 years.
This warming may only be a short-term fluctuation but could be a longer-term trend.
Evidence is still inconclusive whether man is causing the warming.
No "natural" causes for global warming have been confirmed.
One possible new theory is that galactic cosmic radiation (GCR) modulated by solar activity affects low-level cloud cover and is causing the warming.

Global warming may affect some parts of our society negatively but would likely benefit others. In fact, the current warming trend may be returning our global climate closer to that prevalent in the Garden of Eden. Compared to climate changes which have occurred in earth history, a temperature rise of a few degrees is a small fluctuation which will not lead to a complete melting of the polar caps or another ice age. Earth has a stable environmental system with many built-in feedback systems to maintain a uniform climate. It was designed by God and has only been dramatically upset by catastrophic events like the Genesis Flood. Catastrophic climate change will occur again in the future, but only by God's intervention in a sudden, violent conflagration of planet Earth in the end times (II Peter 3:1-12)."

I like it!

Ms Bower you are behind the times dear. The tide is turning as it should and I am happy its doing just that. The only thing I want is TRUTH. I am tired of the secular mostly tenured scientists bending data and such to fit their preconceived notions that man made global warming is true. If there were reliable CONCLUSIVE evidence that indicated man was causing warming (if the earth is indeed warming) I would be the guy ON TOP Of the band wagon yelling for us to stop and desist! However the newer evidence does not even come close to making that assessment.

reva

 

The Earth has been Warming and Cooling since the beginning of time, long before man could have had anything to do with it...

But THIS TIME you think it is "Man-Made"!?!?!?!?!?!?

I suppose SUV driving Soccer Mom's are also causing Mars and the other Planets to warm right now as well, right?!?!?!?!!?

I wonder.... What do ALL of the Planets have in common that may cause temperatures to rise all at once?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Are some people really this stupid, or do they just play idiots on the Web?

 

Let us not forget that Man is able to survive rising temperatures much better than cooling one's...

So if man is able to affect the temperatures even a little, it is in his interest to help stop the next Ice Age. Many more Humans would die in an Ice Age than would if we become more Tropical.

 

You do realize there are numerous indicators that point to this, yes?

It's not stupidity. It's rationality for the lay man and a scientific debate for the experts. Denialists educated on the internet are the only ones certain the whole thing is hocus pocus.

 

It seems that's your strawman, since nobody but deniers make claims that man is solely responsible.

 

I already accepted that nobody can beat your sophisticatiobn which drops me speachless. My mind is very simple. Thanks for trying to flatter me and read what is not it.

All I have been having is what I said:

" Simple minds often cannot get what you are saying.

Are you saying that all things are known to science? "

If I may dare to repeat the simple question:

Are you saying that all things are known to science?

 

No.

All indications are that, for the most part, this warming trend would/will be happening regardless of Human input. And If Human input can "change the balance" of what happens to bring on the next impending Ice Age, then I say we do everything we can to keep the Globe as warm as possible, because Man is much less likely to survive in numbers due to an Ice Age rather than a Tropical climate.

Sorry...

I believe the resources would be better spent in helping us figure out how we survive these Natural changes rather thanm believing for one instant that we can change them. They are going to happen, like it or not. It would be best for usa to study how we may attempt to best survive these changes rather than thinking for one moment that we can stop them.

 

False. Actually, there are no indicators of that.
1. Orbital forcing, which causes ice ages, has been cooling the planet for the last 6000 years.
2. Solar activity reached a peak in 1958, and has declined since then.
3. Ocean cycles can only warm the surface by cooling the depths. But the depths are warming too.
4. Volcanoes cool the planet, and only briefly.

Climate instability is bad regardless of which direction it goes. It's the speed of climate change that's the problem more than its direction. If the rise of CO2 we've caused over the last 200 years had taken 20,000 years instead, we wouldn't have a problem.

What a defeatist attitude. If you had been president during WWII, we would all be speaking German.

 

Wrong...

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/temperature/

And again, wrong...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation#Solar_activity_and_irradiance_measurement

 

Okay Rev, I am sure our hard science boys and girls on this board can probably do a better job but here is what I have found - and please this cost me time and effort do me the favour of reading and thinking about it before, like so many denialists, dismissing it out of hand



Orbital forcing is a combination of all of the factors in the picture - the "wobble"
of the Earth around it's axis, the fact the orbit of the Earth alters slightly over time and even the tilt of the Earth

I won't spend more time on this until I see how you respond to this

Spent too many hours in my past carefully researching answers only to get the internet equivalent of

"Neener neener you is a stoopid for believin in a SCAM"

And I am not saying you would do that Rev - but the decent, considered and polite responses have been very few and far between

 

Where does that refute orbital forcing as a cause of climate change?

Sorry but how does this



refute his point?