if the economy is bad, why were there record sales last weekend??

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by gringo, Nov 28, 2023.

  1. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I agree the spending in 2020 isn’t indicative of a strong economy. It’s an indictment of the folly of trying to spend our way out of problems.

    If the only strong positive growth in sales was driven by artificial economic stimulus and following years spending fails to keep up with inflation, it’s a sign the economy wasn’t good then or now.

    I’m not arguing that the “Trump economy” was strong. Low interest rates for over a decade are a piper that had to be paid. Covid was just the cherry on top.

    The effects of Covid are real and will be permanent in some respects. But uncontrolled “spending” and artificially low interest rates for years are just as relevant to the current shaky economy.
     
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  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I recently acquired a 1935 $1 bill silver certificate that says that payable to the bearer on demand $1 coin or bullion.

    Do you think I can go up to the bank tomorrow and get that?
     
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  3. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Actually, they have them before they enter the U.S.
     
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  4. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not since the GRA of 1934.

    Why?
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Based on how the numbers were done in the early 1990's they would currently be up around 7% for this year alone.
     
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  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Because ever since then our government has done nothing but print Monopoly money.
     
  7. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t even print the money any more. A very large portion of the money supply is accounting balances stored in computer memories.

    That really isn’t bad. The trouble comes when the government creates too much money, which the big issue with Modern Monetary Theory. The progressives think that government can create all the money it “needs” to spend. Germany tried that in the 1920s. It didn’t work out well.
     
  8. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I believe it was Germany I read about during their period of hyperinflation where you would need a wheelbarrow full of paper currency just to purchase a loaf of bread.

    We should have never left precious semi-precious metal standard.
     
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  9. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Adjusting for inflation, consumer spending rose a solid 0.4% in September after ticking up 0.1% in August, a strong hand-off from the April-June quarter that bodes well for consumption and overall economic growth in the fourth quarter.
    https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-consumer-spending-beats-expectations-september-2023-10-27/
     
  10. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

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    The precious metals system had its issues too. It’s a complicated issue. A short answer would be that there is not enough gold and silver available to back the paper unless the gold and silver prices were set at artificially high levels.
     
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  11. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    No, but why would you try, it's worth far more than a dollar to a collector.
     
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  12. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    IF we were on a gold or silver standard their value wouldn't be "artificial".
     
  13. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Was there also a record amount of debt added to people's credit cards?
     
  14. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware of that. Just wondering if the government would still honor the obligation.

    It's worth roughly $5 collector value. But some examples of the 1935 bills have fetched up to 5,000. Mainly for odd serial numbers or double strikes or offsets or things like that.
     
  15. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    This. The problem with the gold standard was that it restricted the economy to the amount of gold present. While gold is still continuoulsy mined, the increase is only about 1% of the total per year. This would restrict the economy to a 1% growth, if prices were supposed to be flat. If the economy would grow faster than the rate of gold production, constant deflation would be built in. We all know how well deflation works for an economy, it is basically a death sentence (people tend to delay purchases, if prices for goods fall). In essence, the gold standard was a choke-hold on economic growth.

    Of course, people will always dream about deflation, and, thus, the gold standard. Wouldn't it be nice if prices would continuously fall, so your money would be worth more and more? Unfortuately, this is just a tooth fairy dream. The real life doesn't work that way. In real life, instead of doing less with more, it's always about doing more with less. Thanks to entropy.....
     
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  16. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If we have a good economy, it takes a long time for it for that to register in most folks minds. Months, perhaps a year. It’s how the people view the economy, not all the stats and figures. Stats and figures, numbers are just that, they usually don’t take into account on how all Americans view the economy from their own individual standpoint or point of view. Regardless of all the stats, numbers, figures, 38.4% of all Americans approve of Biden’s handling of the economy, 59.1% disapprove.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_biden_job_approval_economy-7321.html

    Only 26.3% of all Americans think this country is on the right track, 65.7% say this country is on the wrong track.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/direction_of_country-902.html

    You also have this - Even Most Biden Voters Don’t See a Thriving Economy

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/28/...nt Biden looks,not impressed with the economy.

    Bottom line, it’s all about each individual perceptions, not necessarily numbers, stats, figures.
     
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  17. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the government would give you a current Federal Reserve Note dollar or a Sacagawea or Inovation coin dollar. Which are worth about 3 cents of the silver your dollar was in 1935. Actually, the more I think about it, the Government isn't obligated to give you anything for the piece of paper you have, and they could just confiscate it. But they'd probably give you a current $1.
    I'm surprised it's not worth more than $5.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
  18. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Or just print some million dollar bills.
    https://images.app.goo.gl/SUf3fNzMntJH8iaz8
     
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  19. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    .4% isn’t much of an increase. It’s no boom that’s for sure. That’s also quite a steep decrease from the over all dollar amount. Now the question is credit card debt.
     
  20. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wrong. Nixon took the US off the gold standard in 1971.
     
  21. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When a Dem is in the WH you will always find a dark cloud behind the silver lining. 0.4% is a good number.
     
  22. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

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    Oh, but it would be. The current U.S. stock of money is a little over 18 trillion dollars. According to a Google search, there are 261 billion ounces of gold in the U.S. If you divide that, you get $69,272 per ounce. The current market is $2,038 per ounce, which up from what it has been at times.

    In 1933, FDR set the U.S. price of gold at $35 an ounce. That was high relative to the world price at the time, and would be for a number of decades. You could arbitrage profits from trading the less developed countries' currencies, but in the "civilized world," $35 an ounce was high at that time.
     
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  23. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Which only means our money is way over valued. Which the Central banksters around the world already know. They have printed money to the point "money" has taken on a whole new meaning, and even they aren't sure what that is.
     
  24. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    So in 1970 I could have taken that silver certificate to any bank and obtain silver with it?

    1964 was the last year that the Washington quarter and the Roosevelt dime contained 90% silver.
     
  25. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    But that's not silver. 1964 was the last year they made silver quarters and dimes anyways and I believe that also applies to the half dollars and dollar coins.

    The note says payable in silver... Specifically it says.

    This certifies that there is on deposit in the treasury of the United States of America $1 in silver payable to the bearer on demand.

    But I bet you there isn't.

    It could be worth more than five but what I saw was $5 was the minimum amount.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023

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