If YOUR religion lead the world (by far) in terrorism, would you work to improve it?

Just for starters

Revelation 14:20 God put a huge number of people in a giant winepress and killed them all, producing a river of blood 184 miles long. Just...why? But even killing people is not enough for God, in Revelation 9:5-6 he torments people to the point that they wish they were dead, but he doesn't allow them to die, instead he would prefer that they are tortured for five months. But torturing people for five months is clearly just the beginning with God, we see in Revelation 14:10-11 and Revelation 19:20-21 that God has no qualms about providing someone with an eternity of torture.

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My point is there are numerous sects of christanity. That is because of disputes in belief.

 

They aren't killing each other over it en-mass. Its barely a whisper anymore on the world's stage. The Muslim's are so concerned about their own individual interpretation it has thrown the world into a tail spin.

 

???? The problem with Islam is that they are written so clearly. And they have the Islamic caliphates applying Islamic doctrine as law, from 632 until the 1920s, and now again for the last few years as precedent.

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.(*)

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...(*)

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;(*)

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

 

I guess. I'll believe it till I find out different. I cannot speak for the doctrine of Islam, it confuses the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of me. All I know is how they act because of it.

 

Which will become relevant to us if the Christian God were to descend from the heavens down to earth on a beam of light. As an atheist, not something I forsee occurring. While the commandments for muslims to "fight", "kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers "until.... religion is only for Allah" is what gives us this CURRENT worldwide campaign of Islamic terrorism. If a Christian believes I am going to burn in hell for an eternity, it has no effect upon me. If a Muslim believes he must fight against the unbelievers, he might kill me.

 

But there is no instruction for Christians to do so. Christians are instructed to love their enemy and leave vengeance for God. Of course, many fall short of that mark, but that is what they are instructed to do.

 

The doctrine of Christianity includes a separation of church and state. Islamic doctrine contains a bonding together of church and state.

 

Nonsense.

Western separation of church and state was absolutely NOT the idea of the Holy Roman Empire and the Popes.

Our revolution was a separation from England where there was state religion - a feature that had caused people to leave in order to be able to impose their own religious law. And, we had colonies where the taxes went to the dominant religious organization.

We moved toward separation of church and state from there in creating our constitution - a move that came from those who studied secular government.

 

All but a few thousand of those claiming to be Muslims agree with that interpretation of the Qur'an.

Mainline branches of Islam declare these few thousand to be heretical.

Suggesting that Islam is defined by the few thousand radicals and not by the mainline branches is a stupendous blunder. It's like suggesting that the KKK represents Christianity.


In fact, your direction is a blunder that we can not afford to allow to exist. We need (and are getting) the help of Islam to combat these few thousand. Suggesting that those helping us are as you suggest is the most stupid direction we could possibly imagine taking.

 

This is a total denial of history aimed at dodging the FACT of the contributions to science, medicine, math, etc. by the Islamic ME during the "dark ages" of the west.

 

That is simply not true. For centuries christanity and the state were the exact same thing.

 

I said "THE DOCTRINE" of Christianity. It is written in the bible. That was all an invention of the catholic church. Protestant reformation used the text of the bible to demonstrate the illegitimacy of the divine rule of the Catholic church. Back then, bibles were written in Latin and the people were illiterate in their own language, let alone Latin. Christian doctrine was whatever the church said was doctrine

 

I said "The doctrine of Christianity includes a separation of church and state". That would be whats written in the bible. Not what the catholic church invented.
In contrast to Islam, the Islamic caliphates applying Islamic doctrine as law, as they existed from 632 until the 1920s and now again for the last few years, is all according to the written doctrine. Its 90 year absence is in contradiction of that doctrine.

 

I don't think it is any where near that many.

 

Islamic doctrine is written in the Koran and hadiths. It is not the collective behavior of those who identify as Muslims

 

You mean people interpret the bible the way they want? Same goes for the koran

 

So, so many things false about this. Catholics were not the only Christians who taught the divine right of kings, the Bible was translated into Latin specifically to make it easier for laypeople to read and the doctrine of the divine right of kings comes directly from the Bible itself: Romans 13.

 

So how does that work? The state must set up laws that abide by Christian doctrine? Because they did that after they figured out how to read.

 

The catholic church certainly did . Christianity interpreted literally gives you pacifist who love their enemy and turn their other cheek, like Jesus did. While Islam interpreted literally gives us this worldwide campaign of Islamic terrorism fighting against the unbelievers like Muhammad did. BIG difference.
If someone is following a tortured and twisted interpretation of their doctrine, I don't blame the doctrine for their actions. When they are following a literal interpretation of their doctrine, I do blame the doctrine for their actions done in accordance with that doctrine.

 

No they read he doctrine and see the implicit separation of church and state in Christian doctrine and the illegitimacy of the divine rule of the catholic church that they invented.

 

I never claimed they were. MY POINT is that the doctrine of the bible does not.

 

The literal interpretation of the bible promotes the most horrific acts possible. Even you INTERPRETATION that the old testament does not apply is not literal. That is why is does apply for millions and millions of christians

 

I'm not so sure why we should care what ISIS believes. It's interesting, of course. But, our major direction is to support those who are working to create an ISIS-free world.

And, those we need to support in that are almost all Muslim.

I don't know what you are referring to in the Bible on separation of church and state, either.

In the OT, the Israelites were ruled by the law we see in the Bible.

In the NT, there is no proposal for earthly governance. All we get is hand waves as to how to live within the various governments within which "Christians" lived. But, that isn't a suggestion concerning what government SHOULD be - it's an accommodation derived from the fact that Christians were a tiny minority that had no political power. We aren't informed of what sort of government Jesus would propose for a Christian nation.

We DO know what Christians chose once there were places where they weren't a minority.

 

The Catholic Church arguably the most powerful Christian organization still has a state in its control. I'd think they'd take issue with that.

 

As weve seen, the moderate Muslims claiming that ISIS doesn't follow the doctrine of Islam has no effect. ISIS can read and see that they are strictly adhering to the actual written doctrine. That's why they can recruit fighters from over 100 different nations. In fact it attempts to hide the real issues that are plaguing us. Rejection of reality accomplishes nothing other than hiding the reality.