In open letter, Jewish Americans come out in support of Ilhan Omar

What a joke of a post filled with falsehood and denial of your own words.

First you said this - Since the roll of the Israeli lobby was providing "money" Why do you say this is insulting ?

Then when I call you out on this you say this - as if big money is not a huge factor. You never mention of course the people who made it into congress without money ... and you know as well as I this would be few and far between. The second point you completely ignore is the money influences after someone is elected to congress.

Instead of rational thought you give the nonsense response above - complete with ad hom fallacy. What a joke.

Then you blabber on about how Islam is not "Semitic" in some nonsense attempt to distinguish Judaism from Islam - then the fact of the matter is that Islam is just as much of a Semitic religion as Judaism.

You then follow up with this ridiculous nonsense

Just because some race - Semites in this case - founded a religion does not turn non Semites who join that religion 2000 years later into Semites. You are the one with reading and logic comprehension issues so quit projecting your issues on to me.

They you go completely off the turnip truck and pretend to know how the "Holy Ghost works"

What laughable nonsense - Of course it would be meaningless to explain how the Holy Ghost works because you can not prove that the Spirit even exists never mind explain how it works. Do you know how Santa's Reindeer's fly as well ?

You yammer on about Christianity but don't even know the teachings of Jesus - and you completely ignored - running to the playground to stick head deep in the sandbox of denial - my comments in relation to your lack of knowledge of Christianity... and now you want to tell me about the Holy Ghost .. What a joke.

You then go on to make a completely nonsensical argument in relation to Faith - and how "perfect prayer" somehow negates a religion being a faith. What is ridiculous is that I had to school you about faith in the Christian Religion - and after being schooled you repeat the same nonsense - as if you were not already called out on this nonsense.

Divine fallacy denial and falsehood are all that is on display with your posts.

 

"Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated."

“1) I did not say that people have made it to congress without big money - where you have no clue is in claiming that big money is not part of 1) getting in and 2) has an influence once you get in.” (Giftedone)

“You never mention of course the people who made it into congress without money ... and you know as well as I this would be few and far between.” (Giftedone)

I did not say big money has not played a role, neither did I say there is no influence once in, I said it was insulting for a reason, the “few and far between,” which may exist because you acknowledge they may exist:

“’The pro-Israel lobby has played an outsized role in producing nearly unanimous congressional support for Israel,’ is insulting.” (Me)

“I never said big money cannot be involved, I reject the Bigoted statement that it must be.” (Me)

*****

“Then you blabber on about how Islam is not ‘Semitic’ in some nonsense attempt to distinguish Judaism from Islam - then the fact of the matter is that Islam is just as much of a Semitic religion as Judaism.” (Giftedone)

I am with Carl Sagan in the sense I do not believe in a tiny god of Semites, I believe in the God of the universe; if Islam is a Semitic religion, it is NOT the religion of GOD.

*****

“What laughable nonsense - Of course it would be meaningless to explain how the Holy Ghost works because you can not prove that the Spirit even exists never mind explain how it works.” (Giftedone)

“What is ridiculous is that I had to school you about faith in the Christian Religion - and after being schooled you repeat the same nonsense - as if you were not already called out on this nonsense.” (Giftedone)

You could not possibly school anyone on faith, you do not understand what it is, because whether or not the Holy Spirit exists is a matter of faith; nobody has to prove faith.

*****

“You then go on to make a completely nonsensical argument in relation to Faith - and how ‘perfect prayer’ somehow negates a religion being a faith.” (Giftedone)

All blasphemy (except for one) is forgivable see the Bible (Matthew 12:31-32), Jesus can be blasphemed, any prophet, any book, any communications, which certainly means any “perfect prayer” requirement, but the Holy Spirit cannot be blasphemed. It is very simple why Islam is so against freedom of speech, and has made attempts at the United Nations (of tyrants too) to outlaw blasphemy, and Christians had not only accepted freedom of speech but also promoted it; freedom of speech can only exist if the spirit is respected. Then as Jesus said it is up to us to determine whether someone is a false prophet (Matthew 7:15-20); no letters of a book need apply in that judgement, it is simply up to us.

MoHamMad made the distinction between Faith and Islam, and I posted the relevant document on page one of this topic. Faith does not have physical existence; a requirement to fulfill a Semitic “perfect prayer” does have physical existence that is limited to this world.

“[2.41] And believe in what I have revealed, verifying that which is with you, and be not the first to deny it, neither take a mean price in exchange for My communications; and Me, Me alone should you fear.
[2.42] And do not mix up the truth with the falsehood, nor hide the truth while you know (it).
[2.43] And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and bow down with those who bow down.”

That is NOT a faith; a faith leaves open the possibility of rejecting the communications of a man and using our own judgment in favor of the spirit. The teachings of Jesus are clear, using our own judgement not just following blindly what the false prophet says, “And believe in what I have revealed,” Jesus repeatedly told us not to do that, but to judge by the fruits or in contemporary language to judge the content of character.

“And believe in what I have revealed”

If someone has to say that, the message is probably rotten.

 

You did say that some got into congress without big money (without giving a single example) in an effort to downplay the influence of big money. You have also never responded to the fact that big money also influences these folks once in power.

Lastly - which is the topic after all - something you are desperately wanting to avoid - you were trying to claim that Omar's claim in relation to AIPAC was false when in fact it is 100% true.

The comment "pro- Israel lobby has played an outsized role" = a comment in relation to big money being involved. Perhaps you did not understand this but this is what this is inferring. You say "this is insulting" = you are saying big money is not involved.

Context matters - perhaps you did not understand the context of the comment but - that is not my fault.

What ever - Judaism is also a Semitic religion and Christianity for that matter - as much as Islam is. Why are you bringing this up ?

If you want to bash Islam - "I all for it" ... I welcome that challenge at every opportunity. What I don't do however is spout nonsense. I shoot my arrows straight. If you want a coherent argument against Islam .. just ask. The above is abject nonsense.

1) you have no idea what I understand and what I do not. You are merely engaging in ad hom fallacy and diversion and strawman fallacy because you have no coherent argument.

2) I did not say someone has to prove faith. What I said is the simple fact that one can not prove that the Holy Spirit exists. This does not mean it does not exists. What it does mean is that you sure as heck can not prove its existence - yet - you talk as if you can.

3) you did need to be schooled. You were obviously unaware that the majority of Christianity does not believe in salvation by faith alone "Sola Fide".

4) being "a faith" does not necessarily include having faith in the "Holy Spirit" - I don't see you running around claiming Judaism is not a religion of faith - Jews do not have faith in the Trinity Doctrine - the Holy Spirit. You are speaking in gibberish and not even bothering to define your terms.

Now you combine interesting stuff with nonsense. This is one of the most interesting quotes from the Bible - Where you go off the turnip truck is in claiming that this passage relates to Islam being against freedom of speech. This is simply false.

So then

It is interesting to note that God was included in this group as well if you research the passage. One can blaspheme the Father, and the Son but not the Holy Spirit. Overzealous translators removed God from the equation - unfortunately. This is inferred (any sin can be forgiven sans blasphemy of the holy spirit) but still .. originally this was stated directly.

I have studied this passage for years and, while it is difficult to say for sure what this means, your interpretation is 100% not one of the possibilities.

Jesus was the Logos (Mistranslated as "the word" in John - meaning the actual word is Logos. While Logos can mean "word" - in a religious context it means - emissary between God and man. That is what this word meant to the audience and the author - and every theologian knows this. The Logos was a very common concept at that time. The audience to which the author of John was speaking was Greek and he was trying to make Christianity more acceptable to this audience by using terminology they would understand)

So then - Jesus was the emissary between God and Man. Jesus spoke "the word" of God through the Holy Spirit. Jesus then "was" the word of God - the Logos.

How then can one then blaspheme Jesus "the logos" without blaspheming his teachings - "the word" = a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit through which Jesus spoke ? Think on this for a bit and come up with an answer before reading further. If you haven't though this already- then you have not put much time into this passage. What is this "unforgivable sin". Surely this is an important question to all Christians do you not think ?

I will let you think on this and respond in another post.

 

so according to your logic because there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of blacks that support Trump that makes Trump in no way racist
glad we can come to that understanding

 

This conversation was getting off topic so I have continued in the proper place ... http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-logos.552439/

 

Bull, I am saying YOU are a BIGOT. It is irrefutable. Money does not pick the winner, but a person who looks like they can win does attract money. I would rather vote for someone I do not like personally, just to keep the more heavily funded Clinton Obamanation out of office; please note she outspent and LOST. I am simply NOT going to vote for a back stabbing DEMOCRAT who would destroy Israel because they are open-minded to the bastard creed of Islam, open-minded to diversity for the sake of it (even if it means you lose your culture), and just as open-minded to Satan getting critical mass as they think Moslems are cute.

To say the Jews don't believe in the Spirit of the LORD is ridiculous, it is all through their books.

What you don't seem to be able to understand is that absolutely nothing in your passages means anything, you cannot prove it means anything anymore than you can prove a spirit, so all your studying of a passage is 100% meaningless. You can't comprehend the Bible passage by passage. The whole logical point of the Holy Spirit, of faith, is the fact that the only way to really follow God is directly. And that means that the Son of Man (Jesus) is fair game for blasphemy, the only reason the Spirit of the LORD is off limits is because you can't see it, you can't flip the pages of it, you can't study it, and to have faith it exists means you have to respect freedom of speech, which means you don't poison Socrates or crucify Jesus, or kill someone for rejecting the pedophile slaver MoHamMad's toilet paper Koran.

 

The Zionists financed the Nazis in order to get the German Jews to move to Palestine. The majority of Jews didn't want to leave so the Zionists thought that they needed some urgent motivation. It was all in accordance with Theodor Herzl's master plan.

 

eventually someone will be like "Hes not a REAL Jew"

 

I was thinking of saying "Jewish Americans" have cooties and dangleberries, but then some Bigot who thinks a Jew or a few Jews is "Jewish Americans," might misinterpret what I said and send more FBI witch hunt agents to count more of Trump's dangleberries, because obviously we are colluding on something.

 

Jews are Democrats, even if their party wants them in the back of the bus.

 

Israel is decidedly nationalist and not all that keen on the UN, unsure if youve noticed.

 

Not in a million years. Their policies are the polar opposite of what any principled nationalist stands for.

Nationalists recognize every people's right to exist and have their own countries. Israel denies the Palestinians that right, and so do their supporters on a daily basis, look no further than this forum.

Nationalists stay within their borders, and recognize they have no authority within other people's territories. Israel has been :
- occupying many territories outside of their borders
- Building settlements on these territories
- Conducting preemptive strikes on the entire Shia world (Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, aiming at Iran)
- Lobbying the entire Western world to get support for all the former
- Internationally banning the right to boycott Israel

Israel also constantly pressures European countries into Holocaust repentance. See the recent altercation with Poland for example.

Israel is a *global* power. Their influence is not limited by borders in any way.

A good comparison is China for example, which has a similar expansionist strategy. Except China's influence is only economic, while Israel's is military, ideological, legal, etc.

Colonialism is globalism, anti-colonialism is nationalism. Israel is definitely on the side of colonialism.

Left-wing globalists and right-wing globalists don't like each other very much. That's normal. Still infighting between globalists.

It's like Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims, they don't like each other very much either, still fundamentally follow different doctrines of the same ideology.

 

Your tea party called Obama a Nazi and a racist who was out to decimate the white race. In fact several right wingers here have said the same.

Funny ain't it?

 

Give specifics - what words were "racist" and which ones were "antisemitic". Be very specific.

And, as we ALL know, your hero Trump has made many racist statements. Click on search if you don't believe it.

 

AND THE RIGHT DEFENDED THEM!!!! LOL!!!!!! Now the friggin frauds look for an excuse to pounce their hate on a Democrat and they find Omar. A little hypocrisy isn't a problem.

 

Who's claiming to be such an authority?

LOL!!!! So this is the "authority" that worries you. On this subject of antisemitism a Jew is as much of an authority as anyone will find. Your rush to declare that everyone's opinion, including, no doubt YOUR OWN, is as valid as that of American Jews, is laughable in its absurdity. If you really feel that way then you must admit that all the accusations of Omar being "antisemitic" are also, in your estimation, no more valid than is her defense by anti-Zionist Jews here and in Israel.

 

You've got it all wrong. It a case of the pro-Zionist right being at the throat of the objective, fair, honest and balanced critics.

 

How do you know? Just because of their grasp of Zionism?

 

This view is naked racism.

 

So the idea that a Jew who has experienced a life of anti-Semitism and has been called the usual array of Jewish slurs might have a better, more accurate, more significant view of it than, say, an Italian Catholic from the Bronx, is "racism"?

Are you serious? Do you realize how utterly absurd your statement is now?

 

Yes it is racist. You do not need to be of a certain race to understand racism. To state otherwise is openly racist.

Your voice has absolutely no additional weight due to your race. If a claim is proposed such that this or that is anti-Semitism, it adds absolutely nothing to your argument for you to be a Semite.

 

That's an illegitimate viewpoint. Certainly in the case of Zionism one must focus on the politics as that is what Zionism is. So for anyone to call Omar's comments on Zionism, Israeli politics, or U.S. backing of Israeli Zionist government "anti-Semitic" is racist, itself. I will give you that.

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

Show me a Jew who hates Israel and its 99% sure the will be typical liberal extremists on most other issues also

Beginning with not believing in God

 

99% guarantee any Jew who hates Israel is only Jewish by birth, but hasn't practiced a thing since they were 13 or decorated their last Christmas tree. Sort of like Bernie. Democrats use him as a Jew but the guy hasn't been Jewish since he was a kid.