# Is the speed of light zero?

Discussion in 'Science' started by Bloggs45@hotmail, Oct 26, 2020.

1. ### An TaibhseWell-Known Member

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Nope. You notion on the speed of light carries an assumption; one that is illustrated by the fact that light can be slowed (it’s been done), it can be imaged (cool paradox, eh?), and even imaged such to show it’s duality, and it can be frozen (this has been done as well). And yes, we can tell when it has.
The speed of light does not change time, that would be a misunderstanding of Special Relativity.
In the simple equation e = mc2 what is C? Though many refer to it as the speed of light, it isn’t, yet it seems conventional to use that euphemism...why? Answering that question will go a ways in clearing confusion as well as why the euphemism is still used, though it is misleading.

2. ### MonashWell-Known Member

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I was under the belief that 'C' was the speed of light in a vacuum and not in any other medium or under any other special conditions. So the speed of light used in his equations is always the bog standard 300,000KPS ??

Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
3. ### An TaibhseWell-Known Member

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C can be described as the speed of light in a vacuum, but there is a reason light’s speed in a vacuum has the value it does when measured, but light’s speed is variable in different mediums, so when most people talk about the speed of light as a constant, there is a nagging bit of the nuance, that they mean, the speed of light as measured in a vacuum because we have the means to measure the speed of light in a vacuum. But, in different mediums, light’s speed can vary. A couple a sources that give relatively digestible explanations are....
A better way of understanding C.... [video][/video]
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-ba...t-and-it-isnt-the-speed-of-light-543b7523b54f
Once C is understood, it has relevance to understanding the speed at which gravity wave travel providing a basis for advancing LIGO technology, a technology that still in its infancy, and one that has the potential for exploring the phenomena of black holes, providing further opportunity to understand better the nature of gravity... one of the largest mysteries of physics and key to unifying Special Relativity with our understanding of quantum reality.
So, when understanding how light is effected by different mediums, given light is a phenomena we can observe and measure, we are provided the opportunity to indirectly measure different, currently undetectable mediums, like, perhaps dark matter.

BTW, while many things in physics are contrary to our everyday experience we observe and measure with classical physics the variable speed of light has been known, observed and explained for a couple hundred years with observations light refracted in the atmosphere or prisms resulting in rainbows and even light refracted in a simple glass of water.

Light travels in a straight line? Hmmm... even that notion can be challenged...
https://physicsworld.com/a/twisted-light-gains-angular-momentum-through-self-torque/

So, can anything exceed what is now considered the speed of causality?
https://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/what-travels-faster-than-the-speed-of-light

Just for fun, the following,

https://www.engineering.com/Designe...D/9692/The-First-Photo-of-Lights-Duality.aspx ... be careful here, while interesting, it is worth asking a question of what is actually being depicted by what method

https://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2003/may/HQ_news_03176.html ... freezing light

[video][/video] ... a counterintuitive video of filming light in slow motion

Aside from the interesting question of the speed of causality, light itself yet has a great deal to be explored...

Also, while exploring the nature of the speed of causality, one of the handful of vexing questions that evaded Einstein, despite his groundbreaking work, questions he was working on up to his death, was quantum entanglement, a phenomena that observed seemed to suggest a potential for speed beyond the constant defined C (the speed of causality). If the speed of causality is fixed (while thus far indications are it is.. though not definitively proven), the explanation of quantum entanglement, one of the big mysteries of physics indicates, as Einstein himself thought, both his theories and those of quantum mechanics are yet incomplete and of the candidates for a TOE, String Theory variants, Quantum Loop Theory, E8, etc., only String Theory is proposing an explanation, though unverified, that it can be explained if additional dimensions can detected, but If so, what does that mean for our understanding of how this would result in more questions of the properties of light.
Fun stuff, questions that make life interesting.

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4. ### Gelecski7238Well-Known MemberDonor

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You are correct. Einstein perceived the speed of light to be the ultimate speed limit and used that as line of inquiry to develop general relativity and special relativity.
Our government snooped on Bruce Cathie's research as if it was as important as the "gibberish" of Einstein or Tesla.
Logical hypothetical considerations are not necessarily gibberish to those who probe the frontiers of intelligence pertaining to subliminal perception.

5. ### HereWeGoAgainWell-Known Member

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Incorrect. The speed of light had been demonstrated to be constant in the Michelson–Morley experiment in 1887 - 18 years before Einstein published Special Relativity. Einstein was the first person to make sense of those results.

Total crackpot BS. The guy wasn't even a scientist. He was a pilot, which means he had enough math to do a first year college physics problem and no more.

And I'm a physicist so don't lecture me about how science works.

Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
6. ### liberalminorityWell-Known Member

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incorrect einstein worked at the patent office and made sense of those results using the work of others.

it was demonstrated many times that he went to the back room and used the work of other scientists for his findings.

a pilot can make scientific discoveries on their own.

Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
7. ### InjeunWell-Known Member

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So a Gopher Tortoise is faster than the speed of light?

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8. ### LMCWell-Known MemberDonor

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You are correct. Relative motion, space, and time do not exist for a traveler once the speed-of-light is achieved. All which travels at the speed of light is, essentially, already everywhere. Nowhere else to go. Measurement of movement (speed and spacial location) becomes irrelevant. Hence a 0 mph analogy is quite accurate. However, once a speed-of-light traveler slows to sub-light speed, time and space begin to, *ahem*, "matter." <<KABOOM>> LOL! But how do you get to the speed of light? You don't. Unless, of course, you can project a black-hole prototype in front of your vessel, like a carrot on a stick, and proceed to fall into it. Soon you appear to the onlooker as a beam of light and if you reach 186,000,000 mps you will simply be everywhere at once, and to the onlooker you have merely vanished beyond the event horizon! Save for your last 3-D holographic image projected on the outer wall of said event horizon... bagels!

9. ### MonashWell-Known Member

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Again my understanding was that the reason the speed of light (in a vacuum) was required for 'C' in the famous equations was that this speed was and is the highest speed possible for light (a vacuum having the lowest possible refractive index) in normal 3D space.

So for example if the speed of light was found to be higher in some other hypothetical medium than its speed in a vacuum then that 2nd speed would be the one plugged into the equation.

Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
10. ### Gelecski7238Well-Known MemberDonor

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I'm not incorrect, else Wikipedia is also incorrect.
A lecture for you is warranted because of your ignorance of what Bruce Cathie was all about.

Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
11. ### Hoosier8Well-Known MemberPast Donor

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The speed of light is one of the constants in science. Since a photon has no mass it is not constrained like a mass trying to achieve the speed of light.

12. ### yardmeatWell-Known Member

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See previous post.

13. ### truth and justiceWell-Known Member

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14. ### ChriztonWell-Known Member

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Seems more akin to just freezing the photons at absolute zero

15. ### truth and justiceWell-Known Member

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You cannot freeze a photon as that would break so many other laws (which I'm not 100% anti ) ! At near zero K, gaseous atoms have the characteristics more of solids than gasses. Photons travel through solids at lower velocity,

Now if that experiment can demonstrate that a substance at near zero which has "trapped" photons has the light source removed and at a measurable time later releases a burst of photons when temperature is increases then that would be another matter

16. ### An TaibhseWell-Known Member

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The speed of light is used as an analog in equations because it represents the classical measurable/observable speed of massless partials in a vacuum, but when applied in our understanding in the Quantum domain, it represents the theoretical maximum speed of causality in a vacuum.
That light travels different speed in different mediums has been known in classical physics for more than a hundred years and longer to anyone seeing light refract in water or passing through a prism. And in fact, as I posted previously, light has been stopped completely.
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...-inside-a-crystal-the-basis-of-quantum-memory
The properties of light continue to be explored, including some very strange (to classical understanding) to exhibit twisting, interlacing in controlled experiments and is being explored for how it’s properties can be exploited for the development of quantum computing in a number of ways.

17. ### AlpinLukeWell-Known Member

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Or a student with an idea for a thesis wanting to test it on internet forums.
I guess he wants to find a way to put together the electromagnetic force and the gravitational force.
Let's remember that the photon is the particle of the electromagnetic field [vector boson with null elementary mass].

Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
18. ### MonashWell-Known Member

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Give up, it doesn't wash. For a start the alleged 'thesis' contravenes 100 years of accepted physics. It doesn't build on what what is already known, instead it completely undermines it. But disregarding that fact for a moment the alleged 'student' concerned has still 'walked away' from any debate on the topic. Which, by default implies zero buy in to the original post.

In other words spam.

Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
19. ### AlpinLukeWell-Known Member

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On a light note:

Or it means that the speed of this poster is equal to null.

So we can write down a math formalism:

S=NMA*T/RC

Which means
Speed = New Member Absurdity * Theory value / Rationality Constant.

This means that S will be very near to zero or equal to zero while the theory value tends to zero.
Stating RC = 1, if T is equal to 0.000000001 the multiplier will be [obviously!] equal to 0.000000001 and so, regardless the value of the absurdity, the speed of the new poster will be well near to zero ...

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20. ### JonsaWell-Known MemberPast Donor

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from the previously posted article: https://sustainable-nano.com/2014/08/05/slowing-the-speed-of-light-to-zero/

21. ### MonashWell-Known Member

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By way of clarification, this is not the effect the original 'poster' was describing with his/her theory. The photons concerned in this clever experiment slow down because they are forced to interact with the Bose/Eienstein condensate (note the name) used in the experiment.

22. ### JonsaWell-Known MemberPast Donor

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Oh right. the OP is nonsense.