Islam & Christianity the same tradition ?

The identity of those crying "Lord Lord" is not crystal clear - which is why have not included these folks in the previous couple of posts. Why then are you talking about this rather than addressing the passages posted that were crystal clear ?

This is an avoidance/denial/ thought stopping tactic. Look - I get it - which is why I continue. I realize that adherents are taught that if they "question" or "do not believe" certain tenets of dogma/doctrine that they risk the worst nightmare that the mind can imagine - being horrifically tortured in the afterlife - not just for a few days but for eternity - for ever and ever.

The reason I get it is because I too used to hold such beliefs - I was raised in a very religious home - Lutheran - and have close relatives who are members of the clergy - and have had conversations on this exact topic with these and other members of the clergy.

What I don't believe is that we were given a brain - and then expected not to use it . This is the expectation of "just have faith" - just turn off brain and "just believe" - the tenets of some man made dogma. I believe that the purpose of having a brain is to question - not to act like some robot. If that is what God wanted then he would of created a bunch of robot like humans.

 

No, they are fundamentally different. Christianity (ancient Judaism as well) is an emphasis on human witnessing, while human witnessing is the exclusive way for a truth of any kind to reach human individuals.

 

Jews, and Christians who convert.
You are not including all the facts.
That is "Kitman", Lying by omission.

 

That doesn't make sense, as a convert to Islam is a Muslim, not a Christian or Jew.

 

Islam and Mormonism are both "cults". Islam is not an Abrahamic faith. That's just something that muslims and the secular media promote.

 

All religions start out as cults.
When they gain money and power, they become religions

 

That is called, Kitman, or lying by omission.
Further explanation and abbrogations can be found by reading further.

3:85 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

 

I don't see grounds for that.

They believe in the Bible and accept Jesus as a major prophet (the only prophet to have performed miracles through the power of god). They see Muhammad as a more recent prophet.

Do you accept Judaism an Abrahamic faith?

What does it take to be an Abrahamic faith?

 

Yes, there were wars between Muslims, Jews, Christians, polytheists and pagans in years early enough to be documented in the Qur'an. And it wasn't uncommon for the enemy to be identified with their religion.

 

No, they don't believe the Bible. Abraham is the father of Jews and Arabs, Isaac and Ishmael. The Messiah is prophesied in Scripture to come through the Jews. There is no prophecy for Islam. Islam is a lie.

 

Well, this idea that Islam doesn't believe in the Bible is just plain false. They absolutely do. The Qur'an is considered a later message from God, not an invalidation of the Bible.

Jews don't see Jesus as the Messiah, either. So, your logic doesn't work out for you unless you are claiming that Judaism isn't an Abrahamic faith.

And, suggesting that nothing is real unless it was stated in a prophecy isn't supportable, either.

Finally, the statement that a Messiah will be born of Jewish ancestory doesn't invalidate Islam. It also doesn't invalidate Christianity.

 

There are many Jews who believe in Jesus. The first Christians were all Jews. Muslims do not believe in the Bible, period. If muslims believed the Bible, they wouldn't be muslims.

 

actually it does.
The Qur'an takes stories of people in the bible, and changes them into different characters completely.

Islam had no history of it's own to draw on, so it used existing religions to make up their own stories.

 

Exactly. Muhammad took a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and made up the rest.

 

Actually there is no evidence Muhammed existed at all.
The religion takes form 300 years after the supposed events.

 

Sheesh, what's next, "Thank God I'm an atheist"?

 

Which God should we thank.

 

There's only one, so figure it out from there.

 

Islam sees God's message through Muhammad as being additions and corrections mostly to the Torah - not the gospel. They revere Jesus as documented in the gospel, with the Qur'an referring to him as "spirit from god" and see him as the most important prophet other than Muhammad and the only prophet to perform miracles through the power of god.

There are definite differences between the three main Abrahamic faiths. Suggesting they would be different if they interpreted the Bible differently is true, but meaningless.

 

Of course it had a history - it grew out of the Bible. Muhammad very clearly had a deep belief in he Bible.

It's like you are saying that Protestantism and no history of its own.

 

I'm atheist now (not sure why I feel the need to preface every remark in the religion thread with that, but I think it helps keep my motivations clear), but as a former Protestant, I must point out that without Sola Fide (faith alone), deathbed confessions are worthless, since such people have not and will not ever perform any works. Faith alone is what gets you to heaven and saves you from hell, or Jesus would not have said to the thief killed by his side, "Today you will be with me in paradise." What works had the thief done? Nothing except to confess that he accepted Jesus. The Catholic Church is built upon lie after lie after lie, and the requirement of works is one of the worst. (Idols, worship of saints, veneration of Mary, etc., are all in there, too.)

 

It absolutely is an invalidation of the Bible, since it's a wholesale rejection of the message of Jesus and of Paul. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, Mohammed said to strike off the heads of the unbelievers. It's an invalidation of the Old Testament as well, since God clearly said to the Jews, you are my chosen people, while Mohammed said Allah said to kill all the Jews until none are left. Would the God of the Jews tell Mohammed to kill all his people?

Obviously rejecting the New Testament is not the same as rejecting the Torah.

Disagreeing with Migrunt here, the idea that the Arabs are descendants of Ishmael was a sham promoted by Mohammed and has no basis in reality. The Arabs already existed at the time of Abraham, but lived hundreds of miles away in the Arab peninsula. They are unrelated to Abraham's tribe. The Palestinians today are closely related to the ancient Israelites, less so to the Arabs of the Arab peninsula, but Mohammed and his bunch were true Arabs, completely unrelated to the Semites of Abraham's time. Read here (it's long): https://www.quora.com/Are-Palestinians-descendents-of-ancient-hebrews?share=1

Obviously it doesn't invalidate Christianity since the Messiah of Christianity was of Jewish ancestry. It certainly casts doubt on Mohammed's claim to be "God's final prophet" since the Messiah of the Jews was supposed to save the Jews. Instead, Mohammed turned out to be their worst enemy ever until Hitler came along.

 

Actually Muhammed was worse than Hitler.
They led similar lives and the only reason Hitler killed more was the tech of the times.
The only real difference between the two, is that Hitler was not a sexual pervert.
But like the gift that keeps on giving,
Islam, and Muhammed, is responsible for over 270 million murders.

 

While I agree with you on the numbers of people, for the Jews, Hitler was much worse. Most of those 270 million killed were Hindus, Christians, and pagans, while on Hitler's side, of the 10 million killed in the Holocaust, 6 million of them were Jews. The only thing Hitler didn't do was leave a religious message behind telling his followers to kill more Jews. So in that sense, Hitler's evil was time-limited, though the prevalence of Hitler-worship on Bitchute is surprising and disturbing. Hitler worshippers are an odd bunch, too, they both deny and celebrate the Holocaust.

 

Dude .. you claim to be an atheist and then make defacto claims about what one gets one into heaven - which is the same as saying you believe in heaven which is the same as saying you believe in God.

I agree completely that the Catholic Church is build on a lie - nothing but applause from the Choir on that one. Deathbed confessions are a Catholic invention - .. based on the same lie as all the other lies.