Well, you have one now as most Israelis were born there. Having you turn 180 degrees around and support the nation of Israel brings tears to my eyes.
The more people apologise for Israel, the more I want to arm the Palestinians. If we aren't going to do reasonable, then lets not. Mutually assured destruction. That would bring peace, one way or another.
I'd rather see the Palestinians rescind their declaration of war and try peace for a change. Even more cheaper - stop providing military aid to Israel. That will bring it to a boil much quicker and peace would reign over the area with Israel intact.
I always supported a homeland of the Jews, just not Israel. The birthrate of jews in Israel, while sizeable, is not nearly enough to compete with neighbouring arabs, if segregation is the defining policy.
When? Their Charter still vows to destroy Israel and claims the entire Mandate area as theirs. No wonder they "still get the same treatment as if they didn't" - because they never made peace, just going through the motions to pretend they are. In any case, even if they are trying a bit more than the ten to forty percent of effort Israel says they are putting into this they have still yet to reach a point where peace is possible so no, they never made peace, even in your dreams.
Huh? A while ago you said that if they were born there they would get your support and now you renege on that statement. Well, better get used to the Jews being in Israel because they're not going anywhere and, even more of them are born there every year which means your own reason to support her gets stronger. Well for now, you support Israel as it fills your criteria of having most people there born right there. In a hundred fifty years when Jews become a minority we can hold another conversation as to why you ought to continue your support.
Of course there will always be something that's casus belli in the eye of a regime that have nothing to gain from peace. That's why such peace is illusory. "Jewish Jomeland" does not mean "Israel". The Oblasts or something is also a Jewish homeland, whitout the need to be apartheist. As far as I am concerned, the Jews born in Israel can be proper citizens of an inevitable Palestinian state, but the apartheist regime itself is illigitimate, and must be put down. If you believe that there can be no Jewish homeland without it being an exclusive, militaristic and expentionnist affair, then that kind of tell us what kind of person you are, DrewBedson. Are you still confused? As for demographics, Jews are already a minority if we take into account the Palestinians in the occupied territories. Yeah, I know, they have no rights at all, says your Hasbara handbook, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, does it? In any case, 150 years is not that long. Africans have waited 300 years to get free of european colonialism. Poor people are a resilient, patient lot, DB.
And this is from observation of how many times the Palestinians actually rescinded their declaration of war and struck the violent desturciotn of Israel from their offensive charters? True but Israel means "Jewish Homeland" to the Jews who live there as well as everybody else as it is part and parcel of their official nationhood. Go ahead if you feel that strongly. Show us the strength of your beliefs. I'll be watching the evening news for the story about a knife wielding French Canadian shot down at some checkpoint. True. Good thing I don't but for right now it works for them until the but hurt from having Jew neighbors wears off on the Arabs. And the Arabs are a minority if we take into account the rest of the world. I'm really not sure of what point you are trying to make here. Actually I don't have a handbook as to take you Al Aqsa shills on and make you work for your free chickens and goat time requires only the ability to access facts, patience and typing skills. It amuses me to see you all running back to your Madrasa cells to reload with more disinformation from your cell master to no end. In any case, 150 years is not that long. Africans have waited 300 years to get free of european colonialism. Poor people are a resilient, patient lot, DB.[/QUOTE]
Strange then that the majority do not live there. The Majority of Scots live in Scotland The Majority of Iranians live in Iran The Majority of Greeks live in Greece. Can you tell me another country where the majority of their people don't live there?
Nice words but look at the facts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre I would refer to the indiscriminate massacre of innocent Arab men, women, and children by Zionists as ethnic cleansing. Following Deir Yassin massacre, as well as others being committed by Zionist military groups, the Zionists declared independence leading to the Arab nations coming to the defense of the Palestinian Arabs. The "Zionists" refused to protect the Arabs that would have become Israel citizens with the creation of the Jewish State of Israel so they fled by the hundreds of thousands to avoid being caught up in the war or massacred by the Zionist forces. It's estimated that between 400,000 and 700,000 fled as refugees. These were not militant Arabs that represented any threat to the Zionists but instead were innocent shop keepers, laborers, their wives, and children. At the end of the hostilities they wanted to return to their homes and become citizens of the new nation of Israel but Israel refused to allow them to return and assume their rightful place as citizens of the newly formed nation. They weren't denied the "right of return" because they'd participated in the conflict or because they wouldn't recognize the newly established government but instead they were denied the "right of return" because it would have granted them citizenship their numbers would have threatened the Jewish control of the government. Refusal of the "right of return" for hundreds of thousands of innocent Arab residents of what became Israel, because they would have to be granted Israeli citizenship, was a form of ethnic cleansing of the Arabs from Israel. Since 1967 the Israel government has been exercising control of the "Palestinian territory" and the Arab residents are unquestionably citizens of that territory. They are not allowed to vote or granted "provisional or permanent" citizenship where they can participate with "full and equal citizenship and due representation in (Israel's) bodies and institutions" While not technically ethnic cleansing they're being treated identically to the Jews under the control of the Nazis that were also denied ""full and equal citizenship and due representation in (Nazi Germany's) bodies and institutions." Of course during the years since the 1967 invasion we've also seen the Israelis bulldozing Arab homes and businesses to make room for the illegal immigration of Israeli citizens into the Palestinian territory and that is ethnic cleansing of the Arabs and that is also reminiscent of how millions of innocent Jews were treated by the Nazis where they were also forced from their homes and businesses. It's all well and good to have "nice words" but a person should never be judged by what they say but instead they should be judged by what they do and the "Zionists" (not all Israelis) have been systematically involved in the ethnic cleansing of the Arab population under their control since before the Zionist revolution in 1948. All of their efforts have related to purging the Arabs from the ALL of the land of Palestine that they claim belongs to them. Yes, they're willing to allow a few to stay but only if they remain a significant minority so that they never have political power and can be oppressed by the "Zionists" that advocate Jewish Supremacy in the nation of Israel.
An excellent rebuttal to a false statement being made and we can also look back historically starting at the end of WW I where, based upon Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, Palestine was provisionally recognized as a sovereign nation. At that time, if I recall correctly, 85% of the Palestinians were Palestinian Arabs. At the end of WW II, when the Zionist revolution took place, about 2/3rds of the Palestinians were Palestinian Arabs while the "Zionists" were overwhelmingly European immigrants (Jews) that didn't have any family (or genetic) connection to Palestine or any part of the Middle East. Of course today that's changed because the Jewish population of Israel is predominately second or third generation Israeli and they now have a direct connection to Israel and it's their home country. The Israeli Jews (and Israeli Arabs) have just as much right for Israel to be their home country as the current Arab population of the Palestinian territory have to their home country. They were born there and that establishes their natural/inalienable right as citizens of their respective nations. A foreigner doesn't have that natural/inalienable right to any part of Palestine as their homeland. That is why I believe the Palestinian Arabs are willing to accept the two-state solution based upon the provisions of UNSC 242 today and that same reasoning should also apply to the Israelis. We cannot go back to 1948 when immigrant European Jews seized control of part of Palestine because they're mostly dead or too old to matter anymore. We have to address the "rights of the living" and that's those people born in the nation of Israel and born in the nation of Palestine (or what remains of it today).
The charter is in fact an unimportant and redundant text that not even Israeli forces take seriously. The only thing that matters is what they do. It does indeed inform their outlook and politics. For example they are never ever going to say that israel is a just creation. They will always oppose it. But that doesn't mean they are going to plan violence and end cooperation or that they won't recognize an Israeli state. The IRA still has an aim of a united Ireland, hasnt changed that aim one bit. Still made a final deal. Their actions are far more important than their charter. No in fact it only needs more or less what they have right now. That's ok. Things wax and wane with events. One cannot (*)(*)(*)(*) people of and expect nothing to happen. But I'm worried. Are the settlers being cut off too? Except my posts aren't from the Palestinian Authority itself. Lol. Why do you say the truth is only in the charter? How would you know? Politicians made the charter also. You really don't know what you want to say here. But go ahead. Tell us again that a PA meeting, under constant watch by Israeli security, regional and world media, with roving reporters everywhere doesnt think its words are recorded. One more time please. I just want to read that from you one more time. Nope it's not a treaty or an act of legislation or a proposal. Those things get signatures. It's their detailed position. A Charter doesn't get into specifics as much and therefore is less useful. Good question. It's not 100% because Israelis are oppressing Palestinians. Israelis are a belligerent occupying force. That said the Palestinians, being reasonable, have prevented hundreds of attacks and arrested many more. No the israelis were the ones who invaded Palestine. Palestinians didn't do anything until they were invaded betrayed, attacked and settled upon. They bulldozed their villages and moved into their houses. Still do. Do you agree? None of that makes them an irreconcilable enemy as conflict resolution shows. Cooperation waxes and wanes with events. Overall cooperation has been excellent across the range of Israeli and Palestinian life.
In white, anglo-saxon communities (which Israel is trying to emulate - or is it the contrary?), what you say is much more important than what you do.
Your words are unoriginal, pathetic and parroted from neo nazi sites. For you to engage in such dialogue speaks loudly to what meaning you have in your life and how you establish your feelings of self worth..
How about you bloody well read the PA Charter. It calls for the violent seizure of all of Israel, and Jordan and turning them into a Sharia law state. Its no different than the Hamas Charter. What's the phacking difference? You want to pretend Mr. Abbas is more moderate. Unlike you I read the charter and I read his daily call to Palestinians to wipe out Israel. I have seen his standing ovations calling for the violent war to take back Israel. Save your spin of the PA for someone else. They are scum. Their legacy was to have lied. Their legacy was to have drawn out peace talks for years only to tell the world from the get go they were lying, bargaining in bad faith and never had any intention of living next to a Jewish state and it was all just a joke to stall for time. The PA has zero authority. Its run by a spent, 80 year old pathetic ignorant anti semite who is corupted, despised by his Al Fatah wing and has no power left. They are waiting for him to die and then of course we will have a bloody civil war. There's no democracy within the PA-its a bunch of cells of stupid, angry, primative men who seek to consolidate their pathetic little fiefdoms at the expense of their people.
The charter was written when they'd just been removed from their homes and weren't even considered to exist. Today they've been cooperating with Israel for over a decade. Why should your sides words and good deeds be taken more seriously than theirs? Surely you can see that both sides have their issues but really most Palestinians just want to be left alone. As do most Israelis. Except the settlers of course.
Creation: 1-The charter is a very real, deeply felt religious decree inspiring terrorism: You stated: "today they've been cooperating with Israel for over a decade.". I take it you mean the PA. Actually what they have done is break each and every agreement Israel arrived at with them, then stated it would never honour any agreements with Israel. The PA is engaging in a world wide propaganda campaign called BDS to try isolate and delegitimize Israel's existence and the repulsive Abbas as all but egged on the current knife terror attacks calling them heroic and justified. That said Palestinians and Israels have their issues. Palestinians need a nation yes and the longer their stupid leaders hold them at war with Israel the longer it will be for them to form a nation. They need roads, water, electricity, jobs, sanitation systems, etc. None of that will be addressed as the money is not spent on Palestinians and instead is stolen by terrorists for what? Palestinians like Israelis are tired yes. Yes I think settlements are an obstacle to a comprehensive peace plan as are some lunatic extremist settlers. I have said that time and time again. And? Why do we play that the PA or Hamas will ever recognize Israel. They won't and the Arab League won't. They continue the same bull crap denial from `1948. Its a joke to talk peace when thge PA demands it be recognized but won't recognize Israel. That blatant, two faced ultimatum is a sign of the true beligerence, a collective Muslim psyche that can never accept a Jew as an equal in the Middle East. Well that Jewish state is going nowhere while the same old Muslim refrain plays its ugly repetitive song. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/middle-east/2011-11-01/problem-palestinian-rejectionism You asked; "Why should your sides words and good deeds be taken more seriously than theirs? " Because Israel does not teach its citizens to stab innocent Palestinians. Because it doesn't broadcast on its tv every night thar Arabs are evil and need to be killed. It doesn't teach its children Arabs are inferior and they should be killed. It doesn't devote an entire education system to brain wash the next generation to hate Jews. Nothing will come of Palestinian as long as its raison d'etre is to hate and blame Israel and the gutless Arab League of nations could have settled this matter years ago. Surely you can see that both sides have their issues but really most Palestinians just want to be left alone. As do most Israelis. Except the settlers of course.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE] Why are you talking rubbish? The charter is not a religious decree. You've been offered the Saudi peace plan.
The PA Charter is their most important document and still in full force no matter how you try to dance around it. Abbas admits it, his henchmen admit it and you can't as you say they cooperate but the reality is they know if they don't cooperate to a minimal degree Israel will enforce their security for them.
They've been cooperating by not only arresting their own own preventing terror attacks but across all areas of life. They have offered a reasonable peace by reasonable negotiating terms. You cannot expect them to reasonably give up their view on the destruction of Palestine and the creation of Israel but that doesn't mean they are going to attack Israel just because their charter opposes it's existence when it was created at a time when they weren't even considered to exist.
