The PA Charter is their most important document and still in full force no matter how you try to dance around it. Abbas admits it, his henchmen admit it and you can't as you say they cooperate but the reality is they know if they don't cooperate to a minimal degree Israel will enforce their security for them.
Old documents do not trump actions no matter how you try to wriggle out of it. Israel itself is recognizing the PA can be a partner every day.
Ever actually read the PLO Charter from 1968? http://www.iris.org.il/plochart.htm Excluding the fact that statements made about the 1968 PLO Charter are false (e.g. the Charter doesn't call for the violent seizure of Jordan or of the creation of "Sharia law" state, and it recognizes the Rights of Palestinian Jews as being equal to Palestinian Arabs) it does express the goal of re-establishing the nation of Palestine as provisionally recognized following the break up of the Turkish Empire.... .... and the expressed goal of Zionism is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism What we do know from recent peace negotiations over the last few years is that the Palestinians are willing to abandon their stated goal of re-establishing the nation of Palestine based upon the territorial borders of "Palestine" established after the break-up of the Turkish Empire and to instead settle for the internationally recognized territorial borders of Palestine today but this is conditional upon one key concession by Israel: The Israeli Zionists must also abandon their expressed ultimate goal of the complete conquest of all of Palestine and be content with Israel being a nation within it's internationally recognized borders and stop all attempts at expansionism into the surrounding territories that are not a part of Israel. So both sides have to abandon their historically expressed goals for peace to exist between the two nations. It's really that simple and neither side is disadvantaged by giving up their previously expressed goals in reaching a lasting peace with the other.
Fascinating but most probably Israelis here want to keep occupied territory including Jerusalem the golan and definitely everything they took in 1948.
If the best you two at this point can do is deny the charters and try pretend they don't say what they do knock yourselves out. The reference to the Saudi peace deal was a joke. Right- in your world refusing to recognize a country's right to exist is peace offer just like a charter calling for Israel's destruction doesn't really mean that. The spin that Israel recognizes the PA as a legitimate peace partner, lol. You came on this forum to repeat your stale spent pro Hamas mantra. You spin, deny, fabricate. Its what you do-come on this forum to deny Israel's right to exist and spin that as a peace offer. Right. Abbas is a nasty, lying, anti semitic piece of scum. He lies pathologically. You want to spin him as a spokesperson and man of peace? Lol. Your audience ain't growing. On the contrary it has shrunk. Go on, go boycott some Jaffa oranges.
You forgot another item the so called Zionists/Jews/Israelis/Hebrews would wish this to happen quickly in our time... is that the Arabs should pick and go join their brethren in any of the Arab countries so we can get rid of that plague, that anchor that still keeps us from springing forward.
Indeed. The question is why don't your fellow proIsraelis here recognize your views as the evil it is? I think they do. And they hold your views also. But in secret.
I don't deny anything. You do. You deny the other side of the coin = cooperation. Moreover you in fact are a profound and truly deceptive bigot here by your comments. It's clear that really you completely agree with HBendor. You're his best buddy. No one ever sees you countering his evil views.
Listen bud, this is my country from 2000 years am I then, the only one who has to recognize your views as evil together with all the Arab/Muslims of this world? A good example is what ISIS is doing to erase Christianity... In addition they have managed to kill 200,000 Muslims in this exchange? So Mister who is the evil one?
I have no evil views... but it is natural that the Arabs want to play a fast one on the world pretending they have been penetrated by Jews who bode them evil! Just the opposite the Arab conqueror of the Seventh Century in their continuous zeal to impress by pressure and murder, cannot, will not be able to take over our ancestral home... I am someone who wishes a battlefield confrontation to the end... enough already, 68 years have elapsed, and we have been quite patient! Go away already! You and your people are like an albatross around our necks!
The IDF names his as their most important partner in security. He's worked tirelessly for limitation to non-violent means since he became President - even though his land is occupied and that occupation force is carrying out ethnic cleansing operations against his people. It's you who is spinning, bud. And, you are doing so in protection of Israeli criminal activity that has gone on for a very long time now.
I think the "my land for 2000 years" argument is a fail. Today, we have well recognized property law. Yet, Israel is bulldozing the homes of Palestinians living in occupied Palestine as they carry out ethnic cleansing operations. That is an open and shut case against Israel.
BS Your terminologies and your grammar do not impress me one bit... <occupied, ethnic cleansing, showering, taking a bath, wash your lingerie etc> have been used in the past, try to be original and come here with clean hands... You have not a smidgen of chance, so prepare your valises and go, we will throw in the transportation, so you will not march 10 abreast like the Syrian out of their country...BTW there is a Palestine in Texas, check this out!
The pot calling the kettle black... wow you must be one of the original ones who are learning <public relations>
What the heck was THAT supposed to mean?? - - - Updated - - - You hate the IDF?? You just keep sounding more and more confused.
Why there are still Arab Refuges 68 years later in Israel and elsewhere Visit Israel and you’ll be startled by how many colors you’ll see. I don’t mean the colors of the buildings or landscape; I mean the colors of the people -- black, white, olive, brown and everything in between. Israel is a true United Nations. That’s because Israel is a nation of refugees -- from everywhere. And more than half of them are from -- are you ready? -- Arab countries. Over 850,000 Jews were expelled or fled from the Middle East and North Africa following the Arab countries’ attack on Israel when it gained its independence in 1948. For over two thousand years these Jews had lived in the Arab countries of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq -- and in the Muslim but non-Arab countries such as Turkey and Iran. Today, they form over half of Israel’s Jewish population. Many of these Jews from Middle Eastern lands look, well, just like other people from Middle Eastern lands -- of darker complexion with dark hair. Other Jews migrated from North Africa. So, why is their story so unfamiliar to most people? The most important reason is that they didn’t remain refugees for long. But refugees they most certainly were: the vast majority forced to leave their homes, possessions and businesses behind. In other words, they came to Israel with nothing. Some 650,000 of the Jews forced to flee North Africa and the Middle East became citizens of Israel. The other 200,000 fled to the United States and other Western countries. To give you an idea of how few Jews remain in Arab countries, consider these numbers: There were 150,000 Jews in Iraq in 1948; today there are less than 10. There were 140,000 Jews in Algeria; today there are less than 50. There were 75,000 Jews in Egypt; today less than 20. The pattern is the same across North Africa and the Middle East. Now contrast these forgotten Jewish refugees with the most celebrated refugees in the world -- the Palestinians. How is it that the Jewish refugees are not even an afterthought, but the Palestinians are the longest lasting, most lavishly supported refugee population in the history of the world? The answer is purely political. After Israel gained its independence in May of 1948, the surrounding Arab nations attacked the new Jewish state. As a result about 700,000 Arabs living in Israel fled. Many left because of the war, and many did because they were told by Arab leaders to leave the Jewish areas. The idea was that they would return once the Jews and their state had been destroyed. Khalid al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, admitted this Arab role in persuading Palestinians to leave. In his memoirs, he wrote: “Since 1948, we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave.” That's how the Arab, later re-named Palestinian, refugee crisis was created. In 1949 the United Nations formed UNRWA -- the United Nations Relief & Works Agency for the Palestinian refugees -- the largest and only long-term UN agency that was ever formed to deal with just one group of refugees. Seventy years later it still exists and still calls the Palestinians, and their children, and their grandchildren, “refugees.” It has an annual budget of over a billion dollars, funded mostly by the US and the European Union. How much did the Jewish refugees who were expelled from the Middle East and North Africa receive from the UN? How much did Israel receive to help toward their resettlement? How much does it receive today? The answer to all three questions is the same: Zero. So, the next time you hear someone talk about the Palestinian refugees, ask them why they never talk about the Jewish refugees. And the next time you hear people talk about Israel being settled by Europeans, ask them if they have ever seen an actual picture of Israelis. In color. I’m Dumisani Washington of Christians United for Israel for Prager University.
No its not. You were born only some 60 odd years ago. Who knows where your family came from. Likely from Europe like most of you. You're both evil. You and isis. We can all agree with that. Can't we?
Lol. Your views are entirely evil. Battlefields? Lol. Is that with sword or a bomb? Let's see if you'll finally admit that you want to force families from west bank like you did in Jerusalem in 67. Your record is evil and cowardice at every turn. Picking on a poor and backward people. Never ever leaving them in peace even when you've won the land you wanted you want more. You right wing Israelis are disgusting.
Propaganda piece from the Christian Zionists. Every single point is bull. I'll answer any point here. Your bluff and bluster is long noted. No one is fooled by your cowardly tripe.
I would like to bring members back to the proposition expressed in the OP that's about establishing peace and security for both Israel and Palestine. It's a proposition to put the "past in the past" where previously expressed goals of both the Zionist Jews and Palestinian Arabs for complete control of all of Palestine must both be discarded in achieving peace and security for both. It is a fair proposal for both where each must accept the past and move forward into the future.
Israeli security forces seized four tons of ammonium chloride in a truck crossing into the Gaza Strip before Passover, the Shin Bet announced http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/454037-israel-peace-palestinians-15.html Now your poor attempt to equate Terrorists with Israel is no starter) Tuesday. Ammonium chloride, which is primarily used as fertilizer, can be used as a rocket propellant for long-range rockets. The Shin Bet said that the four tons that were interdicted could have been used to produce hundreds of these weapons. The material was hidden in a truck along with 36 tons of salt, which, according to Ynet, “is typically used to smuggle chemicals into the Strip, especially chemicals used in rocket production.” It was seized at the Nitzana border crossing between Egypt and Israel. The importer of the prohibited material has close ties to Hamas. Israeli officials assess that Hamas has replenished its rocket supply and possesses approximately the same number of rockets that it had on the eve of Israel’s war with Hamas in the summer of 2014. The Israel Tax Authority said in a statement, “This case underscores the activity of Gaza-based terrorist organizations in smuggling dual-use material disguised as goods destined for the civilian population and reconstruction projects.” The statement continued that Israeli customs officials and Shin Bet agents, in cooperation, have foiled “dozens of attempts to smuggle items and materials that are prohibited from importation into the Gaza Strip – such as sulfuric acid, diving suits, rocket propulsion fuel components, polyurethane, sulfur, fiberglass rolls and specially coarse coal for use in iron smelters and metalwork—and which are suspected of being for use by local terrorist organizations.” Israel went to war with Hamas in the summer of 2014 in order to stop Hamas from firing rockets at Israeli civilians. Gaza-based terrorist groups fired nearly 5,000 rockets into Israel during the conflict itself. Israel completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and Hamas took over the Strip in 2007 after a civil war with Fatah. Israel allowed more than 10,000 truckloads of goods to enter Gaza in March 2016, according to the NGO Gisha.
So..... to gain the Palestinian mercy...all we need to do is "admit" our presence here is illegal BUT giving the fact the "good guys" failed repeatdly to finish us off at a considerable price for both parties, we, after all we had to do and pay to survive - are allowed to keep the land allocated for us 50 years ago, split our capital city to have towers and guard dogs and some foreign army patrolling it, lose the one and only holy site fo Jews - and hope for the best now that Hamas has the same size of Israel and will arm itself to its teeth. I dont think so.......I think ill risk with a boycott and buy out butter from China or something. Thanks for the offer thou.....
As accurately stated the primary use of ammonium chloride is for fertilizer but it can also be used as a rocket propellant. We'll assume that everyone knows that Gaza has been subjected to an Israeli blockade for years and that a blockade is an act of war. We should also assume that everyone knows that all people have a "right of self-defense" when they are subjected to an act of war by a foreign country. Finally we should also assume that everyone on this thread has read the proposition for peace in the OP that would end the war so that ammonium chloride imported into the Palestinian territory would predominately be used as a fertilizer and that even if used for a rocket propellant Israel would not be threatened because Israel and Palestine would be a peace and not at war. As noted in the OP, to ensure the peace, there would be an independent military force (preferably NATO based upon the Palestinian proposal) separating Israel and Palestine and any rockets launched over this military force would be considered an attack on that military force. In short if the US was participating in a NATO military force occupying the buffer zone a rocket launched by either Israel or Palestine towards the other country would be an act of war against the United States and our NATO allies. Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and Palestine wouldn't need to defend itself because NATO would be defending both countries for as long as necessary to ensure the peace between the two nations. If Israel wants to be secure, free from potential acts of aggression by the Palestinians including Hamas, then the proposal ensures that peace and security. The same is true for the Palestinians that want to be secure, free from potential acts of aggression by Israel, because the proposal ensures that peace and security.
