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It would only take 9 minutes to destroy Israel

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by websthes, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. websthes

    websthes Banned

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    Invading Iran is a suicide mission. But so was trying to build a Jewish state in a land that is not theirs.

    Israel is too small to stand on it's own without American support. They need more land, more water, and some control of the region's oil wealth if Israel is to become a viable state. A task that cannot be accomplished so long as Iran and Hezbollah have anything to say about it.
     
  2. websthes

    websthes Banned

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    In a 2004 article, Mark Gaffney writes:



    US ships in the Gulf will already have come within range of the Sunburn missiles and the even more advanced SS-NX-26 Yakhont missiles, also Russian-made (speed: Mach 2.9; range: 180 miles) deployed by the Iranians along the Gulf’s northern shore. Every US ship will be exposed and vulnerable. When the Iranians spring the trap, the entire lake will become a killing field.

    The Sunburn’s payload hit, with its 750-pound conventional warhead, is apparently insufficient to sink an aircraft carrier, but it is enough to sink most other ships and their crews. So it is generally opined in the technical literature.

    No conclusive studies, however, have been carried out to determine the effect of a swarm of missiles attacking an aircraft carrier simultaneously. Perhaps there is no need for such a study. Common sense will tell you that a swarm of killer bees is much more dangerous than a single bee. One bee you can easily swat; a swarm of bees you cannot.

    An astute observer of the military situation has offered this comment:



    Aegis and RAM systems do not stop Sunburn missiles. Those systems were designed to stop subsonic not supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles. Even then they were unsuccessful in stopping an Iraqi (subsonic) Exocet when it struck the American warship Stark during the Iran-Iraq war.

    Supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles travel faster than a rifle bullet and it would take no more than three of them to sink an aircraft carrier. In fact, any surface ship is a floating coffin.

    If anyone out there knows of a technology that can stop a rifle bullet in full flight, please let me know what it is.

    “You don’t have to be Hannibal preparing for the Battle of Cannae,” military observer Russ Winter writes, “to see that the Strait is a potential “shooting gallery”.

    The Strait of Hormuz is in fact an ideal ambush location for large and cumbersome ships that offer such easy targets you would have to be blind to miss them.



    Without a doubt, the Iranians have marked out every firing spot along the Persian Gulf coast. Locating these hiding holes with low-flying attack helicopters will not be easy. Helicopters can be shot down.

    Equally impressive is Iran’s missile range: 1500 miles and growing. Hostile Bahrain and Qatar can easily be hit by the longer-range versions of the Sunburn or Onyx. So can the Saudi oilfields.

    Indeed Israel itself, though further away, could suddenly find itself under a shower of deadly missiles, not only from distant Iran, but from Hezbollah just across the Lebanese border.

    “This is going to be the Big One,” says Justin Raimondo, “a war that will make the invasion of Iraq look like a dress rehearsal for Armageddon.”

    * * *

    It is commonly acknowledged that Israel cannot go it alone in fighting Iran. To wage a successful war against Iran, Israel needs American help. Israel would naturally prefer America to do its dirty work for it.

    Should Israel act alone, it would face the extraordinary problem of needing to refuel its bombers en route to targets about 1,000 miles away and refueling them again on the way back.

    It has been suggested that the United States should provide Israel with three KC-135 refueling tankers. Some of these Israeli supporters in America claim they do not themselves advocate an Israeli attack on Iran, but they are kindly disposed to Israel and wish to see it supplied with tankers that would “extend the effective range of Israeli aircraft” and “improve Israeli credibility.” (See here)

    Israel has of course achieved a modest success in destroying the nuclear facilities of two other relatively primitive countries in the region: Iraq and Syria. These two past Israeli successes are not overly impressive. As achievements, they are small beer. That is, compared to the massive challenges Israel would have to face in Iran.

    When Israel destroyed Iraq’s Osirak nuclear reactor in June 1981, it was one ground-level building it destroyed. That simple operation required 14 Israeli aircraft. Israel’s other success, demolishing a partially constructed Syrian facility in September 2007, involved targeting a rudimentary warehouse-like structure built on a single floor—an exceptionally easy ground-level target.

    The potential targets in Iran are not only far more numerous: they are widely dispersed and buried deep underground. Many of them are probably secret facilities whose very existence is unknown.

    There is the fuel-enrichment plant at Natanz, a collection of below-ground facilities used to produce enriched uranium. Then there is the newer Fordow fuel-enrichment plant near Qom, built into the side of a mountain and buried deep underground under several layers of reinforced concrete. It is generally acknowledged that to crack open Fordow, and destroy its alleged nuclear weaponry, would be a task beyond Israel’s modest capacity. At a pinch, America could do it, maybe; but certainly not Israel acting on its own.

    There are two other Iranian nuclear sites Israel would need to attack: the heavy-water reactor at Arak and the yellowcake-conversion plant at Isfahan.

    There are three possible routes to Iran: north over Turkey, south over Saudi Arabia, or a central route across Jordan and Iraq. The US, having officially withdrawn from Iraq in December, is no longer under obligation to defend Iraqi skies from Israeli planes. The Iraqis themselves are of course unable to do so. (See here.)

    The recent Robb-Wald Report tells us that Israel has enough GBU-28 bunker-busting bombs to “severely damage, though likely not completely destroy, Iran’s known underground nuclear sites in a single well-executed operation.”

    Perhaps even this is no more than wishful thinking. Note the loaded phrase: “known underground nuclear sites.” Best not to mention the unknown ones.



    To achieve victory in Iran, Israel would be stretched to the limit. It would have to deploy several B-2 stealth and B-52 bombers, fighter-bombers and helicopters, along with ship-launched cruise missiles. It would not only need to take out Iran’s underground nuclear facilities—an impossible task—but it would have to destroy Iran’s communications systems, air defense and missile sites, Revolutionary Guard Corps living quarters, munitions storage depots, airfields, and ship and port facilities—not to mention missile boats, minelayers and midget submarines.

    Given that Israel, for all its vaunted might, was unable to defeat valiant little Hezbollah in 20o6, the chances of it stealing an easy victory from Iran would seem to belong in the realms of fantasy.

    Not all Americans are in favor of aiding and abetting Israel in yet another rampage of wanton destruction—not after the crimes of Gaza which have left an indelible stain on Israel’s already dubious reputation.

    Destroying Iran’s infrastructure may make sense to some callous Americans, but to many others it would seem a cruel and vicious enterprise. To poison a population of 74 million people, most of them women and children, with tons of depleted uranium, while putting thousands of other innocents into wheelchairs, is not an achievement likely to bring honor or prestige to Israel.

    Not all of us have forgotten the lessons of history. We are cognizant of the fact that Iran has not started a war for 30o years. That it simply wishes to be left alone. And that it is Israel, rather than Iran, that seems to suffer from a serious pathological problem—a “collective madness”—with more than enough blood on its hands.
     
  3. websthes

    websthes Banned

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    Speaking on behalf of Israel’s countless critics, one political pundit writes:



    The US cannot eradicate the Iran regime. It cannot bring Iran under its control, that is, not without creating a disaster for itself and the entire world….Doing that entails huge costs and risks to the US, all the countries in that region, and the many other countries that would be affected by it, including Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan….Right now, Obama must stop Israel from attacking Iran. (Emphasis in original). He must do so in the strongest ways available to him, like denying airspace to Israel for refueling its bombers. … The US [should] prevent Israel…from flying over Iraq and refueling.

    Sound advice, it seems to me. Why support Israel? Cui bono? Iran has much more to offer America than Israel does.

    Iran has oil in abundance, Israel has none. Iran does not hold America’s political class to ransom. Iran does not try to browbeat successive American administrations into putting Iranian interests before American ones. Iran’s dual citizens do not spy on America or sell American military secrets to Russia and China—there are no Iranian Rosenbergs or Jonathan Pollards. Iran does not coerce Americans into fighting and dying for it in foreign wars. Iran does not expect $3 billion a year in handouts, and even more in loan guarantees that never get repaid.

    Iran would be a far greater asset to America than Israel could ever be. Israel is a liability and a burden.

    More fool America for cuddling up to a “friend” who has stabbed it in the back in the past—the Lavon affair, the USS Liberty incident, the Jonathan Pollard betrayal—and is more than likely to stab it in the back again at some time in the foreseeable future.

    Dump Israel. That’s my advice. Before Israel sets the world on fire, taking America with it.

    * * *

    Obama has in recent months begun to make it clear to Israel that the United States would not get involved in a war started by Benjamin Netanyahu without preliminary US approval.

    Indeed, on January 20, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, informed Netanyahu that the US would not defend Israel if it launched an attack on Iran that had not been coordinated in advance with the US.

    In May 2008, Netanyahu’s predecessor, Ehud Olmert, had requested the approval of George W Bush for an air attack on Iran. To his credit, Bush had refused to countenance any such move.

    Netanyahu has since defied the US administration by refusing to assure Washington that he would consult them before making a decision to attack Iran.

    Other US officials have apparently made it clear to Netanyahu that the US, unless fully consulted, would refuse to come to Israel’s aid in the event of Israel declaring war on Iran unilaterally.

    If Israel did that, it would be on its own.

    It would be a mistake for Israel to assume that America is under obligation to protect it from the consequences of its own folly. (For more details, see here.)

    Writing in the Huffington Post, political commentator MJ Rosenberg advances the audacious theory that Israel has no wish to go to war right now, but is more interested in flexing its muscles and playing cat-and-mouse games with America. It wants to show everyone that Israel is now the Cat and America the Mouse: “Netanyahu and his camp followers do not really want a war now. They just want it understood that they can dictate whether there is one or not. And when. In other words, they want to show who is boss.”

    It’s time for a showdown.

    The capital of America needs to be moved back to Washington. Tel Aviv is too far away.

    * * *

    When Zbigniew Brzezinski says, “An Israeli attack on Iran would create a disaster”, he must be taken seriously.

    An old hand, and an expert on Russia, Brzezinski is the acclaimed author of The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives. One cannot help wondering what Brzezinski thinks of the controversial statement made by Leonid Ivashov, former member of the Russian Joint Chiefs of Staff, which aired on Russia Today TV on February 1, 2012:



    Russia does not want any military operations to be waged against Iran or Syria. These two countries are allies, and both are considered guaranteed partners of Russia. A strike against Syria or Iran is an indirect strike against Russia and its interests.

    Later he adds, significantly, striking a chord with people like me who believe that America is now a crypto-fascist state masquerading as a democracy:



    Everybody should acknowledge that Fascism is making great strides on our planet. What they did in Libya is nearly identical to what Hitler and his armies did against Poland and then Russia. Today, therefore, Russia is defending the entire world from Fascism.

    No need to ask who the New Fascists are.

    Just turn on your television sets and you will see their smiling faces, telling you how much they love and cherish you—as long as you vote for them—and as long as you die for them in foreign wars for the aggrandizement of Israel.

    * * *

    It certainly needs to be asked: How much longer will America continue to fight Israel’s wars? What hold does Israel have over America? Is America prepared to sustain immense damage to its vital interests on behalf of an unstable and insolent ally that remains, if numerous polls are to be believed, the world’s most hated nation?

    There are some indications that not all American operatives, especially in the armed forces and the CIA, are overly impressed with Israel’s increasingly irresponsible behavior. A significant rift in the friendship appears to be developing, a rift that will hopefully grow in time as America finally comes to its senses.

    Relations could once again reach rockbottom, as when former US Secretary of State James Baker uttered his infamous remark about Israel’s Jewish American supporters: “(*)(*)(*)(*) the Jews, they don’t even vote for us.”

    Former Centcom chief and retired Gen. Joe Hoar recently complained of a certain shady Israeli operation involving the terrorist group Jundullah, in which Mossad thugs had the impudence to masquerade as CIA agents: “Israel is playing with fire. It gets us involved in their covert war, whether we want to be involved or not.”


    Israel's Covert War against Iran

    The tension between longsuffering Iran and an insufferable Israel, goading it to frenzy, is now at fever pitch.

    Here is part of an interview between journalist Eleanor Hall and Iran specialist Geneive Abdo who is director of the Iran program at the National Security Network in Washington. I have compressed drastically in the interests of economy, but the full version can be read here:


    ELEANOR HALL: Iran’s leadership says it’s sheer lies that it’s behind the [recent] attacks [on Iranian embassies in India and elsewhere] and that the Israelis have planted the bombs themselves to discredit Iran?

    GENEIVE ABDO: Well I think that’s entirely possible. I mean, if you consider what the Israelis did for many years in Lebanon and other parts of the Middle East, that theory is not so farfetched.

    ELEANOR HALL: How incendiary is the relationship between Iran and Israel right now? Are we looking at an Israeli strike on Iranian nuclear facilities…?

    GENEIVE ABDO: I think it’s certainly a decision Israel is taking very seriously.

    ELEANOR HALL: So how dangerous do you think the situation is right now?

    GENEIVE ABDO: I think it’s very dangerous. Far more dangerous than any escalation tension we’ve seen in 30 years.

    ELEANOR HALL: So, how dangerous could it become if the Israelis do strike?

    GENEIVE ABDO: It’s an extremely dangerous situation. The Iranians will not take this lightly, and they will use all the resources at their disposal to attack. They will cause chaos in the region, because their whole survival is on the line….You know, they could launch attacks on Latin America. They’ve even said that they would launch attacks on American soil. They will send missiles to Tel Aviv….If you consider what the Israelis have done in Lebanon…I don’t think that gives us much hope…

    If Israel decides to launch an all-out attack on Iran, we can be sure of one thing: the towers of Tel Aviv will come toppling down. Not necessarily now, but one day in the distant future, when it is decided that vengeance is a dish best served cold.

    The nuclear complex at Dimona could well be destroyed—if not now, later on, in the fullness of time—making Israel an uninhabitable wasteland.

    Given its miniscule size, Israel could be destroyed in a single day, if not by Iran, then almost certainly by Russia or China.

    Only a week ago, Alireza Forghani, head of the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s strategic team, was quoted as saying: “It would only take nine minutes to wipe out Israel.”

    No one seriously expects to see the annihilation of Israel right now, but Israel will have to take the consequences of its actions one day.

    Israel will reap what it sows as Armageddon approaches.

    The clock is ticking…
     
  4. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Impressive.

    You start a thread with three OPs.......and not a single factual statement in any of them.
     
  5. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Its easy to just say "you're wrong" but it's a whole other game to prove it.

    It is common sense, attacking Iran is a disaster waiting to happen, and America will not walk away the same as they went in.

    Iraq and Afghanistan took it's toll on the US. Iran is very much more capable than both combined to defend itself.
     
  6. Blackrook

    Blackrook Banned

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    I seriously doubt the Iranian navy could put up much of a fight against the U.S. Navy.

    I seriously doubt Russia or China would go out on a limb to save Iran. Talk is cheap, but a real shooting war with the U.S. is out of the question.

    This entire thread is based on nonsense.
     
  7. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    Where did I hear it before? Oh yeah:

    The Muslim bravado is only matched by their backwardness and incompetence. The three botched Iranian terror attempts to murder Israeli diplomats is a good example.
     
  8. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    It's also ironic to note how the same group of Israel-hating clowns claims that no one threatens Israel out of one side of their mouth and threatens Israel with annihilation out of the other.
     
  9. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    I'd love to see that happen.
     
  10. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

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    Iran's little navy will be gone within minutes. Our ships can easily survive any missle attacks that they throw at us, its what they are prepared for. Tomahawks and special forces and drones will have destroyed most of their missle platforms by the time we go in anyways. Along with the massive air bombing prior to our ships getting within range.

    China and Russia will not get involved for one simple reason. They stand to lose more in trade with the European and American powers than they would stand to gain from supporting Iran.
     
  11. websthes

    websthes Banned

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    Israel is so small, it wouldn't take much for Iran to wipe them off the map. One also has to question the judgement of building a nuclear reactor in such a small country.
     
  12. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    Life is not that simple. Israeli defense is more sophisticated than that. Too bad for neo-nazi rednecks Israel will never be wiped away.
     
  13. websthes

    websthes Banned

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    Iran does not need a Navy to sink anything the United States chooses to send into the Persian Gulf.
     
  14. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You're right.

    It would need a miracle.
     
  15. kenrichaed

    kenrichaed Banned

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    As soon as the first U.S. missle hits you will the the Iranian soldiers dropping their weapons and running for the hills screaming like frightened little children the same way the soldiers in Iraq did.
     
  16. ctarborist

    ctarborist Active Member

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    LMAO aparently this almighty military expert has forgotten about the six to eight week bombing campaign that would start this war. I dont think the sun burst rx17...whatever would be very effective against our stealth bombers dropping four to five hundred dead balls accurate bombs/missiles on them every day for 8 weeks. once that campaign is over and 80% of every aspect of the Iranian military, ans all of its communications are destroyed, I realy don't think a few sunbursts would be much of a concern. this guy makes it sound like we are actually stupid enough to just pull our entire navy right into such an obviouse trap LMAO
     
  17. axialturban

    axialturban Well-Known Member

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    Solving Iran doesnt need an occupation. Is anyone suggesting otherwise except islamic propoganda merchants? Some US ground units would deploy I'd imagine, namely strategic units such as CIA, SOF and perhaps USMC and Ranger raiding parties - but all those guys are not intended to stay when the only mission is to take out the Iranian nuclear programs.

    I do though think Israel is vulnerable, but it would make a mess of Palestine as well. I notice Iran sent a couple of warships into the Med to dock at Syrian naval ports so I hope they get sweeped for radioactivity before getting anywhere near the Israeli coastline.
     
  18. marbro

    marbro New Member

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    After Iraq I do not believe Russia or china will allow us to go towar with Iran without major consequences. And unlike Iran Russia and China have thousands of nukes ready to bomb the US. Some off Which would strike me.

    That said a nuke sub off the pacific coast could strike my home in About 8 minutes.
     
  19. The Doctor

    The Doctor Banned

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    Israel is the regional super power Iran is a failed state and the Jews have had a presence in the land of Israel for over 10,000 years and the Arabs are Imperialist invaders and occupiers.
     
  20. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :roll: You are watching too many military procurement company videos.

    What a perfect "Something born every minute", as PT Barnum said!

    Fertilizing the military-industrial complex with a trillion dollars each year does not give us perfect fruit - only perfect BS.
     

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