Modern atheists are more moral than religious people, in general.

You are the one seeing 'contradictions', but if you are insisting that God is responsible, then you must of necessity be willing to make your declaration that God exists. Remember the law of 'cause and effect'. So now you are promoting the 'God did it' chant. That is so becoming of a non-theist.

 

round and round we go..where it stops no one knows..

face the facts..if god actually existed his proven track record is dismal to say the least..F- is even to good of a grade..If satan existed I'd give him a D+ for a better job, maybe even a C-..
so what's the point of having to prove anything..
live your life to the fullest and be good to others..the rest don't matter..
prost!

 

Well, thanks for the emotional slam fest.

Its amazing that first you demand proof, when that doesn't work out for you, you demand job performance (totally ignoring free agency), and continue to slam other people as the fullest extent of being good to others?

Are we supposed to take either you or your atheism seriously when 'debate' with this?

 

contradictions verify there is no god, you're wasting life your groveling for forgiveness and mercy from a myth...

 

Oh, we've seen the atheists version of contradictions, most people, who have actually read with an intent to understand, acknowledge this little thing called context.

Its only the same principle that Western jurisprudence is based on, but heh, I am sure you know better.

Good to see pissing in another Christians face, with that superior life saving morality of yours.

 

Meanwhile most Atheists just behave however their hearts please.

They lack morals, generally.

 

I feel i am more moral. and why?

I have already disproven god and left the religious believers shattered wrecks. Their beliefs dust on the forum floor.

Indeed atheists are a higher human, a true tesitment to evolution process of pure will and determination.

But seriously, the view of morality is a interesting view. Although more individualistic than group.

 

Well, I feel that atheists are generally self worshippers, intellectually bankrupt, and immoral.

As for inddividualists .... they all sound exactly the same.

Just a thought though ... just wondering how moraity is derived from ... nothing?

 

unless like most here they don't actually think it out for themselves and just parrot something they think is cool..

ranting about pink pandas is hardly higher evolution..more like ... leaves out insult

 

Morality is a deep subject that goes beyond the limited confines of this topic.
Is it really fair to say that atheists who simply don't believe in god are more moral than people who do?

Of course not. Maybe on this forum it does, where the religious forum is a on going battle ground of differing confused belief structures vying for control.

Is this view of morality in the confines of this view based on:

Religious doctrine per faith of belief. The words of texts, a guide for believers views to follow.
The atheist view which i assume is the self compass. A set of beliefs derived from different sources as per individual choice.

Or none of the above in which case. Embrace Dazdbog! as your god and ruler.

 

If these pink pandas have surrealist beliefs, i like to read it.

 

I have seen Christians with bad morals, Atheists with bad morals, ect...

I think people with good and bad morals can belong to any set of beliefs

I could give examples, but I think we have all seen for ourselves

 

Really? How does, atheists being more moral that religious people, leave morality so deep that it is outside the topic at hand?

In fact, that statement would be a pretty good, and rather common, indicator of morality in the discussion of morality.

Atheists = undefineable, so deep and impenetrable that it is undefineable.

Religion = defined, a simple set of rules, displayed contextually through parable and rendered stories to give you examples of good and bad morality and its consequences.

Embrace reality. You'll do better, and be more consistant, treat people with greater degrees of tolerance, accetance, and compassion.

Well, at the very least, you will not totally trivialize your opinion by comparing living breathing people to dead mythologies and thing such behavior is moral, honorable, or intelligent.

You do realize that not having a set defined standards really just means you are subject to moral relativism? Its why we get things like atheists who are pacifist war heros.

Let me show you:

http://www.atheists.org/religion

Religion is the absolutely worst thing, causes wars.

http://www.atheists.org/military

And yet, because our Soldiers are today respected (not after Vietnam mind you), atheists want to assure us that they are war heros fighting right along side the brutal religious nut jobs - they of course are not brutal or nut jobs.

What really great about the last one is the sheer dishonesty. A Christian concert at Fort Bragg happens and atheists scream bloody murder. When their own concert goes down, its freedom personified. In the mean time, every scheduling conflict, every minor set back, and we see the whine fest that follows.

I mean, what a moral productive employee that would be. "Heh Jim, did you schedule that meeting?" No, because the religious nut jobs are bigoted toward me and wouldn't give me the time slot 'I' wanted .... saying it was already booked. Bigots! BTW, are YOU a follower of Odin, why you trippin with me boss! Yep, that is what we all need. So superior.

Really, quite frankly, atheism seems to be nothing more than the embrace of emotionalism. Whatever is popular flies. After Vietnam, Soldiers and Christians were war mongers, atheists suprememly peaceful and above it. Now, after the current wars, well, these peacenicks need to get their fair share of honor. We must make sure we honor, not their sacrifice, but their atheism - their religion. That is the important thing.

 

The major problem with atheism is that it places man at the apex of morality and it is well known that man can rationalize anything.

Without a code of conduct, something that is strongly upheld in all major religions, man is free to make it up as he goes along, which he does quite easily. It is easy to see the impossibility of any alleged morality of modern day atheists, which actually came from religious teachings, holding over the long term.

 

Since when did religion aact in a moral way?

During the Crusades?
During the Reformation?
During the Restoration?
The attacks to the Trade centres?
Priests buggering kids.
The Vatican covering up the buggerings?
How about the Magdeline work houses?

If this is the morality that you offer me, I reject it.

 

Embrace reality!

I actually agreed with you, (for a change) and you still went beserk. Reread my post.

I also did make a valid point with mythology, it is all religion. And it also disproves your own beliefs.

ie if you view norse etc.. as nonsense and those gods are not real. Then why believe your gods exist?

 

any anthropologist will verify morality came before religion...morality grew from normal social behaviour of our species, all social animals have social behavioural norms that allows them to function within the group...religion only codified existing social behaviour...

 

How would you know if there was morality without religion? Anthropologists haven't found a single tribe or culture of humans anywhere that had no religion. If religion is false, then why is it so universal?

The only examples we have of atheists totally dominating society is in Communist countries. I don't think atheists want to acknowledge that example since the Communists murdered so many millions of people. No religion has such a horrible record.

 

One need look no further than the American prison system where the Christian population is higher, and the atheist population lower, than they are outside the walls.

 

And so now we use ANOTHER appeal to emotion.

The point is that you use logical fallacy, which you do again - but that is beserk?

The point is that atheists, both on and off the forum - are blatantly contradictory, with examples and citation - so evidenced forms of disgareement are prone to emotion.

The near continuous use of logical fallacy is ... totally normal.

You do realize how debate works? Its not simply making dull, unsupported claims and then decaring yourself the victor in some display of obtuse self worship that declare all criticism of mighty atheism to be beyind the pale.

Its a simple point, the 'proof' that you are using is a logical fallacy. Indeed, when teh standard is appied to OUR position, your fellow atheists declare it the dumbest thing they have ever seen.

Its hypocrisy, that is a fact, not an insult. And when blantant hypocrisy is so readily displayed in support of claimed superior morality? Well, you tell me whether of not overt hypocrisy and adherence to logical fallacy is a good way of supporting a claim? (I wouldn't think so, but what would I know, I am a dumb Christian right? So how can I be the one making that point?)

Or make excuses, and continue to validate the claim that atheism is merely self worship by dclaring anything you disagree with to be emotional.

Quite frankly, if anyone is getting emotional kiddo, its you. As teh discussion become more factual in nature, you get further and further removed from and more detcahed from reality by making simple declarations rather than debating. Whose fault is that?

BTW - you are wrong. Mythology might have been a religion at one, point it no longer is. Not all religions are mythology in anything other than your stated opinion. Go right ahead and ACTUALLY prove it wrong. But, if all you can do is defeat dead mythology in order to consider atheism 'valid', well, that says a great deal about the intellectual underpinnings of atheism.

Atheism is better than Norse Mythology!!!! But apparently worse than any other religion practiced today, including Scientology. So, congrats on achieving that intellectual milestone.

 

What amazed me most about this is that this poster has made this claim before, and the then studious ignores the finding time and time again.

http://askville.amazon.com/Religion...ans-Muslims/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=8384184

http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

In fact, in the second there, the non-religious equate to nearly 20% of the prison popuation. But, in prison, you have to positively identify yourself as an atheist - or you are Christian.

Conversely, Buddhists, being nominally good people, are often sighted by atheists as .... atheists, because SOME traditions of Buddhism have no God construct - therefore ALL Buddhists should be considered atheists, their own determination is irrelevant.

It really points to one thing and one thing only, atheists will manipulate any situation or statistic in order to make them better than you - that is the goal.

A actual discussion on morality? Noticeably absent from the atheists in this thread. Or, as one put it, too deep to understand and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Now remember, atheists claim to be open minded and driven by logic. But what do you make of the SAME atheist poster making the EXACT same claim in defiance of statistics at least a half dozen times? Clearly the intent is self fulfilling and an honest approach to ethics is lost.

I agree with a simple premise - there are good and bad people of all faiths and no faiths. Its our individual actions that judge us, and anything that helps us take accountability of our lives and reach to ward higher and better goals is a good thing.

IMO, atheism, having no standards or doctrine, it perhaps the worst faith choice in which to achieve self actualization and realization. It why we get things like, "I'm better than you based on prison!," or, "I am better than you because I am an warrior or pacifist depending on whatever YOU are!"

Its nothing more than comparative morality, in which morality is derived from comparative analysis/rationalization. Its easy to be better than a murderer in jail. The problem is, inevitably, as we see, when your peers are constantly degraded and made INTO criminals? Well, at that point there is a definitive dislocation between morality and reality.

And if you doubt that? Then why do so many atheists insist on calling religious people, racists, slave owners, rapists, etc.

Explain this:

http://www.atheists.org/religion
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1330982314&sr=8-3"]Amazon.com: God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything (9780446697965): Christopher Hitchens: Books[/ame]
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Atheist-Manifesto-Against-Christianity-Judaism/dp/161145008X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330982334&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: Atheist Manifesto: The Case Against Christianity, Judaism, and Islam (978161145008: Michel Onfray: Books[/ame]

In fact, the vast majority of atheist literature is about slamming religion, not setting moral standards of achievement. That does not mean that atheists are incapable of this, but, what we see all too often would more accurately be called the morality of arrogace than actual morality - the display of good works and righteous action.

After all, you tel me what it means when atheists claim a logical fallacy is the dumbest thing they have ever seen, and then turn around and use the SAME logical fallacy to present themselves as better than you? Why spent so much time whining about how good your are and just go out and do a service project or something?

 

Sounds like you reject Catholicism. You make my point for me. Religion, especially Christianity, does not promote any of this, but man can rationalize anything. The basic tenets of Christianity did not change, the Church did.

This country cannot endure without a moral people and morality will not endure without religion. You can see the results of the coarsening of society while religion is rejected for secularism. Beware of what you wish for.

 

Why are you disrespcting Norse

Offended my beliefs!

You dare insult Odin! you will not be part of the honroured Elders in Vahalla.

 

What He Said


Neutral Trying Listening To People

 

Don't you mean how dare I insult Dawkins? The most toasty gand pooba of your faith?

Well, Odin is dead and Jesus is not. I'll be OK. You? Nothing awaits. Worms. Your entire existence means nothing and amounts to nothing. You have no purpose, no reason for being, no goals to attend, and you deny that emptiness by prodding others trying desperately to find meaning in derision.

Well, good luck with that. I am sure the worms won't care in the end.