Modern atheists are more moral than religious people, in general.

Try reading the rest of it.

Are you saying that I have no right to rebut people attacking my faith Doc? Its a debate forum. And it'd be nice to see you confront those running around screaming racism, sexism, murder, and liar for a change.

Everything I wrote is claimed by various atheists in this thread. Yet you have a problem with me writing the exact same thing and dismissing those statements as absurd? Take it up with the pacifist warriors of atheism. Take it up with the atheists that both you and I and raping war mongerers, brave war heros who have never seen a battlefield - but as soon as they find out a Christian is a combat veteran? Well, suddenly we fought, killed and died for nothing.

Not a single atheist has anything to say about that.

Cowards.

 

Your own "holysmoke" link agrees with my statement.

" ...Note that atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%)."

 

It says teh opposite. Oh well.

"Unknown/No Answer 18381
----------------------------
Total Convicted 93112 80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known."

That is what the holy smoke sight says.

The 8-16% comes from the first, and is the prison population. 1 in five prisoners is listed as ... no religion. Atheists.

And judging by the number of time atheists come on here and then claim they are agnostics or agnostic atheists, or humanists, or bear meat eating individualists?

Well, there's the ACTUAL numbers. And the demonstrate prevarication ... again.

 

Which part of "disproportionately less" do you not understand? Even if all your imaginary "missing" prisoners were atheists, the proportion would not rise from 0.21% to 12%

 

you are right its 20% as in 100 times more that the claim. Those are the numbers directly quoted for you. Or are those with no-religion not atheist?

As it sits, its only aboue 6 x worse.

But heh, do like all atheists and ignore facts when they conflict with your beliefs.

I mean we all know that atheism magically confers morality on people - morality they cannot explain - but they gosh dern sure can deride you about how much better it is!

 

No I don't. While a can accept that some of the principles adopted by christianity are a good way to live your life, I would argue that christianity simply followed human nature. It goes against human nature (and indeed the nature of most animals on the planet) to kill their own spiecies. We simply don't need the church or "god" to tell us this.

Could you explain to me, how the French are somehow less moral than American's? Their murder rate is magnitudes lower for example.

 

smoke screen, not answering the question does not with being an atheist...one can be a christian without belonging to a organized church, I know a number of people like that...not answering the question has to be taken as just that...of the 80% who answered .21% said atheist...and of the 80% who responded to the question 83% were christian....

 

do apes have religion? wolves? elephants? how about dolphins? nope none of them but they all have complex social structures with instinctual codes of behaviour that are required for the survival of the group...

look up the stats and you'll find that isn't true atheism is strong in non communist european countries....Genghis khan was religious estimates by chinese are that he killed as many as 30million, In Persia estimates of 10-15 million? he depopulated entire regions putting entire cites to the sword...Hilter was a christian and a catholic, when it comes to genocide no one did it better...communist death tolls came about more for political reasons and mismanagement of agricultural reform not generally religion..

 

Too simple of a comparison. Maybe France's murder rate is lower because the drink more wine.

If it goes against human nature to kill their own species, then we would not have much of a murder rate at all so your assumption is flawed. In case you have not studied the matter, the murder rate with civilization has gone down dramatically over time. The more civilized, the lower murder rate. In the past and in some countries still, life was relatively cheap.

I am not talking specifically about murder though. For instance, many of our founders were not particularly church goers but all of them understood the place for the teachings of most established religions. The idea of religion is to remove the importance of self as the apex. With Atheism, all you are left with is self and it is well proven that having only self as the apex will eventually devolve into selfishness. Religion teaches to give, self does not. The US is still one of the most giving countries in the world, if not the most. The same could have been said internally but as secularism takes over and the government looked to as the teat of life, giving is dying away.

 

That is one hell of a difficult debate you are enterting. Who is the most moral?

Which nation is the bestest in the world. I say Wales and why? They are just better in every way.

 

Atheists are not dependent on being told what their morality must be, and the threat of magical punishment from above to keep them moral. Atheists think it through for themselves, and fall by the wayside less.

 

Atheists are dependent on making it up as they go along and therein lies the problem. Like the old saying, if you believe in nothing, you will fall for anything.

 

For me maybe Scotland, because they still use pot distillers.

 

The true belief in nothing is this:

http://andyourlittledog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/nihilism.jpg

 

This from the person who claims that religion is a positive because it removes the individual from the apex, yet claims that the most moral country of all is the one which happens to have the "rugged individualist" cult as its central motif.

Atheists don't believe in nothing, they don't believe in Gods.

 

You are mistaken. I have not claimed any country as the most moral, but I choose Scotland for it's Scotch. Just a personal preference.

 

What was all this about then?

The US motif is the individual, not the collective.

 

On the scale of non religious as someone posted earlier, the US ranks lower, yet it is a very giving nation. The US is a fairly religious country and morality is important, which is taught by religious institutions. It shows through in things like giving to the poor.

I never claimed it was the most moral. I wouldn't know if there was such a thing or how to measure it.

 

What this has been about has been a display of pure hypocrisy.

It was not anyone but atheists who started and joined in the support of this thread and the claim that atheists were the most moral of religious people.

Yet, when even the sly insinuation of Scottish superiority in morality, and the same posters who so proudly declared their moral dominance were, and indeed, outraged.

I have no idea how else to interpret that as anything other than rank hypocrisy.