Moody's: Obama jobs plan will create 1.9 million jobs

Like I said its a money grab.

Those people won't be in any different situation with or without this wasteful spending.

 

Money has been flooding the economy for 10+ yrs. Where's this inflation. Deflation is what the FED RES is fighting against. That, in their minds, is worse than inflation.

 

No, I'm asking for a scientific analysis of the data which makes empirically supported assumptions and controls for as many variables as is realistically possible. If they had this, then there wouldn't be any argument!

The question isn't "did it create jobs?". Obviously any government spending can create jobs. The question is whether or not that spending resulted in a NET benefit to the economy in the form of sustainable growth and investment, and the answer to that question is unequivocally NO!

 

umm,

so that dog won't hunt because Obs is pushing higher CAFE standards so less gas tax revenue

Obs used taxpayer money to build the electric vehicle which goes 40-50 miles on a charge so no gas tax

 

Explain to us oh wise one why all mainstream economics fear deflation more than anything... and how your theory of just letting the economy correct itself would dodge the deflationary disaster that has brought about many depressions in the past centuries?

I can't wait to hear this explanation, because I'm going to steal it, write a book, and go make millions of dollars proving the past 100s of years of economists to be wrong!!

 

Then quit whining, or at least get the RWers you side with, about having unemployed people not paying taxes, being a drain on society. If pvt sector won't hire them and an infrastructure plan isn't the way to employ them, then just sit back and wait til its over.

 

Moody's? You mean the company that gave investment grade ratings to billions of toxic securities? Those guys?

 

is there anyone who thinks it didnt create at least 2 million jobs?

 

Not all economists. Just the ones who live inside the government and academic bubble. The same ones who were asleep at the wheel while the banks drove our economy into a ditch.

Is that what I said?

Speak for yourself. Adam Smith was able to articulate how markets work hundreds of years ago. Supply and demand is at the heart of it all.

 

Why won't they be in a different situation?
What would you want to do, leave the infrastructure to keep deteriorating?

What is the RW plan? Cut taxes, I forgot.
Make less red tape for small businesses? That would be the best but not even the RW politicians would do that. That would mean competition for the campaign donors.

 

Ever hear of the housing market and the stock market?

They're fighting the self-correction, to no avail. Prices must deflate and malinvestment must liquidate or reallocate in order for the economy to recover.

The reason they're so obsessed with fighting deflation is because the elite financial class doesn't want to see their over-inflated assets depreciate to their real market values.

 

Um... do you know how the process of selling Treasuries works?

Okay, you clearly *don't* understand how the government borrows money.

 

They failed when they tried this two years ago at nearly twice the cost. There is no indication this would be any different.

 

apples and oranges because in the DREADED PRIVATE SECTOR you line up fixed and variable costs, expenses, etc.

It's apples and oranges and I can honestly see why you are confused as you carry Obama's water. This is very simply a statement from Moodys which says that stimulation part deux will yield 1.9 million jobs. So, you simply look at how much money is needed to get to those 1.9 million jobs and the answer is $447 Billion thus it takes $235k to create each non self-sustaining job.

Once the taxpayers stop funding those stimulated part deux jobs, they go away.

You are trying to worm this into sounding as if I'm saying it's a $235k salary but it's far from it. Moody's claims 1.9 million TOTAL NET JOBS at a cost to the taxpayers in the Dreaded Private Sector of $447 Billion

a simple division and you get the cost per job. $235k

Again, i see how your agenda has made you confuse the numbers

Go play with your numbers however you wish. heck, plug in a god paying, taxpayer funded $60k salary with good, taxpayer funded benefits worth $20k. That is $80k. You can then add in whatever you want for line items. maybe only 1 million are on the public dole at $60k each and then 900k are temporary private sector jobs perhaps selling coffee or making subs or selling concrete. That is 1.9 million NET JOBS as outlined per Moodys and it still costs the taxpayers $447 billion or, $235k to fund each net job which has been my and others here assertion all along.

Those jobs all go away once the taxpayer funding stops because none of those jobs were a result of natural business growth. In fact, it will have an adverse long term affect on the economy when the bill is handed to us and taxpayers are squeezed of more of their income to pay the bill(sound familiar?)

 

Right, it's a controlled fall instead of a complete crash into oblivion.
BTW - FED RES policy is outside the hands of the prez.

 

First, the president doesn't "run" the economy.

Second, Obama didn't make those estimates himself. He's not an economist.

Seriously, how do you think this works? That the president has a magic wand, mysteriously powerful influence over the economy, can see the future, and has the power do anything he wants?

Since when?

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm not a "right-winger". They've simply co-opted my economics as a means to bash Obama, and I'm fine with that, but they are not like me at a fundamental level. I'm a communitarian minarchist who believes in social liberalism and communal ownership of land and other natural resources. At heart, I'm much more "liberal" than you and the other progressives on this forum.

The problem is that the market is being distorted by heavy-handed government intervention, which means there won't be a proper self-correction until this is addressed. My laissez-faire approach cannot work when there are so many hands on the economy!

 

I get your point....clearly building roads harms the economy

the less roads the better, because those jbos end. and who the (*)(*)(*)(*) the needs roads? and its not like all those people who are employed are spending that money.....

 

No, make work is when you pay someone to count paper clips.

I don't consider tax breaks "make work."

I don't consider building infrastructure "make work."

I don't consider educating our kids "make work."

 

RW logic: less roads = more jobs

 

Its $235k per job for 1.9 million jobs, CNN says its 1 million jobs, so the actual cost per job is substantially different depending on which numbers you use.

 

Of course there is.

http://johnbtaylorsblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/no-bigger-stimulus-would-not-have.html

 

An economy in neutral is in little danger of runaway inflation. Yes, if we just dumped $6 trillion into the economy tomorrow, it might have that effect. But the $6 trillion figure is yours, not mine. And any such spending would be spread out over time.

The slow global economy means there is not inflation-inducing demand levels for either labor or materials.

We won't see wage inflation until the unemployment rate falls a *lot*.

We won't see price inflation unless the stimulus creates shortages of various products.

That gives us a lot of wiggle room.

 

I dont see his estimates of how many jobs it created thre at all...

 

Don't believe it for a second.The guy's a shill for Obamanomics.
Yes,Obama is VERY desperate to get Unemployment down.
Personally Obama couldn't care less about Jobs.Because he didn't focus on Jobs untiul AFTER his ObamaCare passed.By that time it was kinda late.
His Stimulus was just a way of Pandering in the States so that Union
types don't get fired as needed and they will vote Democrat.
Yes,Obama's job plan will ARTIFICALLY Lower Unemployment
as did the Recovery Act.But States will be right back once the money runs
out figgering ways to pay for those artifically created " saved jobs " or
else forced to cut workers in order to meet State payrolls.
Obama thinks he can just pay for stuff as if Monopoly money.
That $450 billion has to come form somewhere.Jobs aren't something
done for sport.Jobs have to be paid for and afforded and need done.
There is no Debate ... Government Spends TOO much.We are going
bankrupt.States have to trim their budgets yet Obama talks as if
there is an endless payroll and jobs need to be filled.
NO ... The guys got it assbackward.Jobs have to be accounted for
and afforded.Not every family that wants a new washer/dryer can
afford it in their budget,even in the best of times.