More contraception means more sex,.... more abortion

The availability of abortion does not interfere or intrude upon parental teaching. Parents are free to teach their children that abortion is wrong and/or forbidden in their particular religious group. Children are free when they reach a certain age to reject that teaching. Government is not obligated to back up parental teaching with the force of law. In fact when it comes to religious doctrines or precepts, government is forbidden to do so.

 

You are swerving around the question. This shows that you are afraid to answer my question, because you may be proven wrong. Let's just use logic here. The Holocaust was legal, but people with morals still considered it to be murder, regardless of it's legal status. This shows that abortion's legal status, in and of itself, should not define whether or not abortion is murder or not.

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NOT ALL PRO LIFERS ARE RELIGIOUS. SOME PRO LIFERS BELIEVE THAT THE FETUS IS A LIVING HUMAN ORGANISM, SOLELY BASED UPON SCIENCE.

 

The legality of an act may not dictate whether the act is moral or immoral, but it does dictate whether it can be called "murder." "Murder" has a specific definition, and that definition does not include legal acts.

They are, they're all fetus worshippers. At what point in development does a zef become "a living human organism" based upon science? BTW, you should beware of picking up bad habits from your fellow posters. Such as overuse of the caps lock key.

 

You still did not answer my question. Was the Holocaust NOT murder, just because it was legal?

 

What about the innocent people killed in war, is that murder?

 

Who are you even talking about?

Please elaborate.

 

Let's just leave it at this. Abortion does not kill a person, so it is not murder.

 

I was comparing abortion to the Holocaust because the holocaust was once legal, just like how abortion is legal now. I am debating whether or not the legal status of something means that it's murder or not. Innocent civilians being killed during war doesn't really fit into this topic.

It doesn't really work as an analogy.

 

If you are correct about the holocaust actions being legal, then the holocaust could not be murder. I tend to doubt that those actions were legal, however. Just because actions were taken by the government, doesn't mean those actions were legal. I do not know enough about history or the German law, to know whether the acts were legal or not. And I'm not inclined to spend a few hours researching the subject, however that would be a good task for you. Here's your chance to enlighten all of us by answering the question with links.

 

What was the name of the "law" that made the Holocaust legal, Sam?

 

Many documents that the Nazi government made had stated that their actions were legal.

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Why isn't the fetus a person?

you deny science.

 

Missed my point grannie but I have a feeling with this subject, it was to be expected and intentional. Both sides truly deserve each other in this case.

 

Name the law that said the Holocaust was "legal", Sam. (Again, this was YOUR claim...back it up)

 

Sam I suggest you do so history research as you are so far of base on this its almost in another ball park.

The Nazi's party (not Germans as a whole) were both pro-life and pro-choice, they were pro-life for the aryan race, in fact almost all German women were banned from having abortions, any other "race" were allowed, even encouraged to have abortions .. The biggest thing you fail to see is that on both of those items neither the German woman or the non-German woman were given a CHOICE it was controlled by the ruling Nazi party . .This is akin to what the pro-lifers want to do on the banning side of it, pro-choicers do not want to FORCE a woman to have an abortion, we want it to be her choice.
You fall into the same rut that all pro-lifers do, you assume that because pro-choicers want to protect the right of the woman to choose that we want abortions to happen . .that is pure BS only promoted by the most desperate of pro-lifers (of which we have quite a few here).
If I was so in "love" with abortion, why would I always be promoting better sex education and more freely available contraception, surely if I "loved" abortion I would want more unintended pregnancies in order to fulfill my "love" for abortion .. I'm sorry but the line of reasoning (if that is what it is) adopted by the majority of pro-lifers here is just plain stupidity and full of ignorance.

As far as I am aware I have never accused you of being religious, yet your position IS based on religious doctrine, the whole pro-life mantra is, again I suggest you look into history and see where the pro-life mandate comes from.

 

THE NAZIS WERE NOT 100% PRO LIFERS. THEY WERE SORT OF IN THE MIDDLE. YOUR COMPARISON IS VERY INVALID.

Besides, I was pro-life even while I was an atheist. I based my views on abortion upon science, not religion.

 

"Person" is not a scientific term. Personhood has never applied to the unborn. Some groups have tried to pass personhood initiatives Mississippi and other states. Why would they do that if the fetus was already recognized as a person?

 

Yes it is. Despite what some racists may say, minorities are persons. Why? Because they are human beings. DUH! Trying to explain why the fetus is a person is like trying to argue about racism to a racist-they both have strange and silly opinions, which they stubbornly believe.

 

Personhood has never applied to the unborn. Some groups have tried to pass personhood initiatives in Mississippi and other states. Why would they do that if the fetus was already recognized as a person?

 

Many people already believe that the fetus is a person, it just isn't recognized by the law yet. DUH!

 

Words have meanings, Sam. Words have meanings, and "person" means a born individual. It has always meant that. You are trying to change the meaning of words to advance your agenda.

 

Prove this.

 

If the meaning of "person" includes the unborn, why would pro-life groups need to pass personhood initiatives in states? And btw, they have failed in every state attempted. Even Mississippi, the most pro-life state in the US.

 

because the law doesn't recognize the unborn as persons! Duh!

 

Why doesn't it? Duh!

 

Because throughout the course of human history, legal systems have sometimes not recognized certain human beings as persons, such as what happened during the Holocaust.

DUH!