My area is getting hit hard by global warming

That would be hard to prove since wind power is so heavily subsidized.

 

An interesting point about Muller if someone is going to use him for a sounding board is that he has not backed off on Mann and his hockey stick fiasco or on Climategate.

 

funny that if you go to Scneider Electrics global page they have a entire page on Wind Turbine management under a Indian company by the name of Suzlon. See how easy it is when you don't accept things at face value?

http://www.schneider-electric.com/solutions/ww/en/ref/26101432-suzlon-wind-energy-corporation

5 minutes worth of digging shows that Suzlon linked to Ramco which is a partner of Schneider

http://www.ramco.com/newsroom/press/cpApr-082014.aspx

do you ever research beyond finding a single source that you think proves the point you are trying to make ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...to-help-Scottish-wind-farms-report-warns.html

Consumers face higher energy bills under Ofgem changes designed to help encourage wind farms in Scotland, experts have warned.

The planned overhaul of network charges will slash costs for Scottish wind farm developers by £1.3m a year but increase costs for southern power plants.

The reforms are the subject of fierce disagreement in the energy sector. Ofgem claims the changes, supported by some suppliers such as SSE, will save consumers money in the long term.

However a new report, published by consultancy NERA and commissioned by rival supplier RWE npower, warns they will do the opposite and put up bills by £9 a year.

The changes have been under discussion for several years and were due to come into effect in April but have been delayed amid the controversy. The regulator is due to decide next month whether to implement them in 2015.




and in Germany

The government predicts that the renewable energy surcharge added to every consumer's electricity bill will increase from 5.3 cents today to between 6.2 and 6.5 cents per kilowatt hour -- a 20-percent price hike.

German consumers already pay the highest electricity prices in Europe. But because the government is failing to get the costs of its new energy policy under control, rising prices are already on the horizon. Electricity is becoming a luxury good in Germany, and one of the country's most important future-oriented projects is acutely at risk.

After the Fukushima nuclear accident in Japan two and a half years ago, Merkel quickly decided to begin phasing out nuclear power and lead the country into the age of wind and solar. But now many Germans are realizing the coalition government of Merkel's CDU and the pro-business Free Democrats (FDP) is unable to cope with this shift. Of course, this doesn't mean that the public has any more confidence in a potential alliance of the center-left Social Democrats (SPD) and the Greens. The political world is wedged between the green-energy lobby, masquerading as saviors of the world, and the established electric utilities, with their dire warnings of chaotic supply problems and job losses.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...-transition-to-renewable-energy-a-920288.html


Australia's carbon tax ?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ctricity-prices/story-e6frgd0x-1226830886617#

Less than a decade ago, Australia enjoyed the lowest energy costs in the developed world. It was an intrinsic part of our comparative advantage as a trading nation. But today that advantage has largely gone.

As a result of the carbon tax, the renewable energy target and a range of other energy policy interventions at the federal and state government level, Australia has some of the highest electricity costs in the developed world.

Household electricity prices have increased by more than 110 per cent in the past five years, and are projected to increase another 7 per cent in 2014-15.

Australian businesses - which account for 70 per cent of total electricity use in Australia - have experienced an almost 80 per cent increase in prices since 2009 and there are more rises on the way.

The causes are not hard to find.

The carbon tax accounted for 16 per cent of the electricity bill for a typical large industrial user in NSW in 2012-13.

In 2013-14, the carbon tax added an estimated $6.4 billion to the nation’s tax bill.

That’s equivalent to a 10 per cent increase in company tax revenue in one year.

Defenders of the carbon tax often point to schemes such as the Californian emissions trading scheme as examples of comparable effort by other nations.

But we should not forget that Australia’s carbon tax raised the same amount of tax in its first six weeks as the Californian scheme is projected to raise in its first two years.

Official estimates suggest that the RET will generate a transfer of $20bn from householders and industrial users by 2020.

 

I don't know. Ask Hoosier. He's the one that brought it up

First, I'd sure like a link to at least an abstract of the original paper.
Apples & Oranges again. A sudden increase in Greenland tells us nothing about what was happening globally, Remind me what the increase in global temps were while parts of Greenland warmed 10C in 2012.

- - - Updated - - -

But the topic I was discussing with Hoosier when you chose to enter the discussion was Greenland temps; not global temps.

 

sorry I forget that some of you guys only know climate from a political demagogues perspective and have no idea of the many factors involved in climate beyond the green K street lobbyists talking points. The NAO ( North Atlantic Oscillation) that is responsible for Greenland's temps is also is associated with temperatures in the eastern United States and across northern Europe oftentimes across southern Europe and the Middle East.

 

So you're going to accuse me of ignorance on climate and choose to ignore this:
"Apples & Oranges again. A sudden increase in Greenland tells us nothing about what was happening globally, Remind me what the increase in global temps were while parts of Greenland warmed 10C in 2012."
About what I expected.

 

Suzlon Wind Energy Corporation is an operator of wind farms that uses Schneider Electric products to protect their workers from lightning. Again, they are not a wind turbine company. See what a few minutes worth of reading shows?

Do you ever look beyond the sources that support your point? When the question is does renewable energy lead to increased energy prices, I only need one source to show that there is a right way, regardless of how many examples you produce of where it is being done wrong.

 

And yet he still supports the conclusion that temperatures are rising at unprecedented rates and that human CO2 emissions are primarily responsible. Maybe that's because AGW doesn't rest completely on Mann's hockey stick or UEA emails.

 

there ya go with the word unprecedented once again. Deceptive buzzwords and cherry picked graphs from Cook the cartoonists blog all you got?

might want to educate yourself before posting . BTW you ever get a grasp on sensible and latent heat yet ?

Sudden climate transitions during the Quaternary

 

It doesn't matter what one tries to prove with graphs and charts. Trash in equals TRASH OUT.

 

I assume you are referring to the climate models and IPCC predictions

 

If you are making (*)(*)(*)(*) up for your computer models you'll get (*)(*)(*)(*) back. And no matter how many graphs and charts are thrown out it'll still be (*)(*)(*)(*).

 

so post your version of the models predictions charted against instrument the readings. The numbers are what they are

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uters-got-effects-greenhouse-gases-wrong.html

 

I believe you and me are in lockstep.

But I kind of like these...

 

By the way that could read...lies in equals lies out.

 

I just believe in historical facts over political greed and politicians, it's not that complicated

 

Agreed. But I'm afraid we're stuck with the pols. Just believing in historical facts doesn't alleviate the problem. There are still liars running this country.

 

Actually, the unprecedented comes from a published, peer-reviewed paper, but don't let a simple thing like science get in the way of your arguments.

 

Peer reviewed papers do not necessarily mean good science.

 

was not aware that unprecedented was considered a scientific term, but the you probably think consensus is science also. Might want to reclassify climate change to religion and politics

 

I wonder how many medical doctors got wrote their thesis on the correlation of stress and stomach ulcers. Another consensus that was wrong

 

Just a quick question since you believe in the sin of warming, do you know what the normal temperatures are supposed to be?

And, is there science data to show us that?

 

The world has dozens of climatic zones. There is no single normal temperature. But there is a normal forcing: it happens when the net of all anthropogenic forcings is zero. And we're a long way from that point.

 

Ok, not to be a wise guy, but says who? You just said you don't know what normal might be at least that is my perception of your response. So who is the one that is allowed to be correct with the statement that anthropogenic forcing must be zero? Does that mean we shouldn't be on the planet? Wow that really seems severe.

 

CAGW believers seem to believe that the coldest portion of the last 10000 years is normal for some reason, at least judging by their graphs which always start at the coldest portion of the Maunder Minimum