Obamacare to Supreme Court

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bluesguy, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What exactly does the Individual MANDATE require, Mello?
     
  2. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    that you have health insurance....you can get it from your employer like most of us, you can buy it, or you can get medicaid or medicare
     
  3. Lionist

    Lionist New Member

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    Thanks for answering and sorry I had not seen it a million times before.
    If someone gets hurt or sick (and we all do at some point) the hospital is required to treat you whether you can pay or not. The alternative I think would be to deny that coverage to anyone who did not have insurance and or could not pay.
    We all end up paying for those without insurance that go to the hospital at a greater expense than if they had a simple doctor appointment.
    We are required to have car insurance in case we cause harm to others and are not able to pay for the damages. But your right, we don't have to have a car. We do have to have medical attention at some point. The damage that causes is for tax payers picking up the bill.
    I don't think laws should be made unless what an individual does effects others. People who don't have health insurance does effect/cost others.
     
  4. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone is in disagreement that the current system is broken and needs to be fixed or modified. I think it's the way Obamacare was introduced and shoved down the American publics throat when there were so many other ways we could have looked at resolving the current issue without the HUGE expense to the tax payer.

    There are a ton of speculations of how this will hit companies, small and large alike, but most know that this will be a huge impact to many small companies, hence the stalled unemployment. Much of the bill doesn’t not go into effect until 2013 into 2014
     
  5. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    that is not true. If you have no mortgage on your home then you don't have to buy insurance. If you own a vehicle for racing or driving around strictly on the ranch then it need not be registered or insured.

    There are lots of exceptions but Obamacare is an Unconstitutional mandate
     
  6. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    My apologies.. You are correct. I should have clarified my statement by mortgage insurance.
     
  7. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    but then you lose the mortgage write off....so a mortgage is mandated...since I pay more for not having it.
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You only have to purchase insurance if you plan to operate the car on a public road and you are only required to purchase insurance to cover damages to OTHER people not yourself and you can post a bond instead of buying anything. EVERYONE in the country is NOT require to purchase auto liability insurance.
     
  9. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    What of renters?
     
  10. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    nope

    if you have a mortgage, please note who is listed on your insurance policy. It's the mortgage company/bank

    having homeowners insurance is one of the ts and cs of getting a mortgage. But, once the home is owned free and clear, you do not have to buy homeowners insurance but Murphy's Law states that once you don't have it is when the crap will hit the fan.

    But, you do not have to buy homeowners insurance unless mandated by your lienholder.
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is the lender requiring you insure his investment or post a bond.
     
  12. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    tiny write off...nothing like the one you get for a mortgage
     
  13. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    pfftt

    that's like people who cavalierly say "hey, you get a write off" when you have capital losses. I'd rather be paying a capital gains tax than having had a loss.
     
  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You might want to review your logic here, if I don't have a mortgage I pay less, nothing. I have a mortgage but don't get the write off.
     
  15. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    That's what I meant. You covering the physical loan, not the actual property, relatively speaking that is.
     
  16. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    you mean like if you ahve insurance?
     
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No I mean like if I don't have a mortgage.
     
  18. Lionist

    Lionist New Member

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    Is there a mandate for employers to provide health insurance?

    I don't like how Obamacare ended up. It could of/ should of been done better. I still think there needs to be a way to get everyone covered. No one plans on getting sick but we all do at some time. One way or the other we all end up paying for those who can't afford to pay.
    Insurance companies make billions a year in profit. If there was a non-profit health care insurance, health care would be way more affordable for all of us.
    I am very much for single payer.
    The insurance companies are the only ones I can see that should object to that as it cuts into their profits. Just as car insurances are competing hard to get people to purchase their product, health insurers would have to do the same to compete with non-profit, or even very low profit.
    The the worse cases, those who need a ton of medical care are denied by insurance CO. Leaving the full burden on the tax payer aka medicaid.
     
  19. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    then you get to pay more taxes because you lose that write off
     
  20. Lionist

    Lionist New Member

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    Everyone eventually needs medical care. If they cannot afford it, it ends up costing the rest of us.
    If someone has say millions of dollars, can afford to pay for damages in case of a wreck, are they not also required to have car insurance?
     
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The tax write off is just a fraction of the cost of the mortgage, it cost me less if I don't have a mortgage at all. Beyond that I still have a mortgage and can't write off the interest, it is too small.

    But please explain how you arrive at your conclusion. Say I am paying $4000 in principle and $1000 in interest each year. I write off about $150 in the interest so I am paying a net $4850. If I have no mortgage I pay $150 more in taxes. So how does it cost me less to have the mortgage?
     
  22. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle Banned

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    Kagan, Sotomayor, Ginsberg- I would bet a month's income they refuse to recognize that.
     
  23. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    His explanation is simple:
    You buy a home for $100,000, and are shocked to realize that by the time you'll pay off the house you'll be paying a total of $239,000.
    Because real estate inevitably increases in value, by the time the home is paid off in 30 years, it will likely be worth $239,000.
    If you pay the loan over 30 years, $139,000 of that was a tax write-off, which you saved on federal and state income taxes.
    Rather than putting the 'extra' money you used to pay your mortgage off faster, putting it into conservative, diversified investments which over the long-term have averaged 10% returns, provides you with a 'win-win' scenario.

    http://newsblaze.com/story/20060730174105nnnn.np/topstory.html

    http://moneywatch.bnet.com/investin...-mortgage-and-why-i-took-one-out-anyway/2985/

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/waggon/2005-04-21-mortgage_x.htm
     
  24. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    No, companies offer it as incentive to lure talent to their establishment. Same with 401K and their contributions. Not a mandate, but companies offer really nice contributions to enlist the best talent.

    Everyone agrees with you.

    And a huge chunk of people plan for rainy days. Even when I was at my lowest, I still found a way to stick a few hundred away, even at the expense of going out on the weekends.

    So what if they make billions of dollars. They are private companies and are working to maximize their profits. Allowing more competition that would impinge on their profit making ability would be a better solution versus a government solution.


    There are non-profits out there today. The reason they are unable to compete with the major medical is the quality of care. It's sad to say, but there are millions of people who just chose not to buy medical insurance. I know 3 off the top of my head. One has a major Thyroid issue and 2 teenage daughters but would rather live in a ritzy part of town with a $2,500 mortgage rather than cover her own care.
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't know what that has to do with whether it is better to pay $850 in interest and save $150 on taxes versus NOT paying $850 in interest and paying $150 in taxes. And LOTS of people these days do not get to write off the interest anyway. We've been taking the standard deduction for years now since our equity is so high and interest so low.
     

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