Ok. So let's address this Trump/Biden documnts nonsense

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Jan 17, 2023.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bottom line is simple. Trump STOLE the documents.

    It doesn't matter if the documents were classified or not. He STOLE them. The National Archives asked him to return them, he refused. They subpoenaed the documents, Trump refused. So they went in and got them back. To this day, Trump claims that the documents are his. That is THEFT.

    Now... if Biden stole the documents, that is theft too. If Biden committed any crime, he should face the consequences. But it's highly unlikely that any judge in the world would convict him, given that he returned them even before anybody knew they were missing. So... no mens rea.

    In the case of Trump, mens rea, ie, his intent to KEEP them is blatant even to this day.

    Got it?

    Ok... now, what is all the noise about, again?
     
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  2. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. He was in contact with archives and has been turning over documents that they have been requested. They requested that he kept them locked. And they provided the padlock. About a week later, Trump got raided.

    Lol.

    When a non president takes classified documents an stashes in his house, where he runs a Money laundering scheme by having his crackhead son at that time pay 50k rent for a regular 2 story house. Unsecured to boot. Not to mention, in a university where Chinese spies are rampant.

    "He didn't steal it"

    A former president who has completed and total acces to such documents keeps them secured with a padlock.

    "That's stealing"

    Lol. That's hilarious. What logic

    Presidential Records Act

    Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office.

    The transfer of legal custody happens automatically. No where in the Presidential Records Act does it state how soon the former president must transfer the documents to the proper custody. No where.

    https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

    Also

    Former presidents can obtain classified material from their own administration, and, as a matter of practice, only a request to the archivist of the United States is required. The current administration has no formal role in the matter, nor is there any prescribed process by which the intelligence community is consulted and given the opportunity to raise concerns. This access is afforded to former presidents who are now private citizens on the basis of seemingly unexamined assumptions about the role of, and even the respect and courtesies due to, past occupants of the Oval Office. And it is provided regardless of the reasons this material may be of interest or use to them.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...cords-act-classified-trump-mar-a-lago/671622/

    Also

    The Supreme Court determined in its 1988 decision on Department of the Navy v. Egan that the president’s power over classified information comes from executive authority granted by Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, which says, in part, that the “President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.”

    “His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security and to determine whether an individual is sufficiently trustworthy to occupy a position in the Executive Branch that will give that person access to such information flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President, and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant,” the Supreme Court decision reads.

    Though there aren’t specific protocols that the president must follow to declassify a document, federal courts have ruled that they will “refuse to recognize what they consider to be an inference of declassification,” McClanahan said.

    https://www.verifythis.com/article/...heck/536-e1961390-e7c6-438a-b9b5-671dc9c6f7ec


    So Trump could just simply say that he declassified them. So what classified documents?

    The only person who broke actual laws was Biden while he was the Vice President.



    I'm honestly regretting even giving this dumb thread traction
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then it should be easy to prove that in his trial. But even today he CLAIMS that they belong to him. They don't! They belong to the American people.

    The conspiracy theory that follows in your post tells me that maybe I wasted my time explaining even the above.

    What part of the second paragraph in the OP did you not understand? Classified or not.. . makes no difference: he STOLE them.
     
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  4. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    What part of the response did you not understand

    Presidential Records Act

    Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office.

    The transfer of legal custody happens automatically. No where in the Presidential Records Act does it state how soon the former president must transfer the documents to the proper custody. No where.

    https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

    The only person who stole documents and stashed them in unsecured places was Biden
     
  5. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So by your own idea that a president can psychically think something and they are declassified could Obama do the same with Biden’s documents?

    Since there is no time period when they just be transferred and the president doesn’t have to actually follow any procedures to declassify them.

    Correct?
     
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  6. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Trump "stole" the docs.

    Biden "might have" stole the docs...lol

    The sad part, is that you aren't the least but embarrassed about this double standard.
     
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  7. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    SO?
     
  8. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    So, Trump didn't break any laws. Biden did.
     
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  9. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    What double standard?
     
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  10. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but theft is still illegal.
     
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  11. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Biden did the stealing.
     
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  12. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    And trump.
     
  13. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Trump is guilty
    Biden is innocent.

    They both did the same thing. Explain the difference that gets Biden off the hook. The legit legal difference.
     
  14. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Trump was the president. Biden wasn't.
     
  15. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    No they didn't.

    Trump:Give us the docs, NO! We have a subpoena, NO! Fine then we just going to get them.

    Biden:Here I found these docs
     
  16. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Which doesn't change the fact that he stole them.
     
  17. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    So, you say they both broke the same laws?
     
  18. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much.
     
  19. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    I'm still waiting for the part in the Presidential Records Act where it states how quickly the former President must relinquish the documents after the automatic transfer of custody occurs
     
  20. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    . Biden let the Vice Presidency in 2017 we are now in 2023 - Biden had possession of the documents for 6 years, and interestingly waited until. after the midterm election to confess. Biden stole his docs as well.
     
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  21. Trixare4kids

    Trixare4kids Well-Known Member

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    Not only that but he knowingly harbored and carelessly stored classified documents from the Obama era for more than six years.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  22. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    Trump has documents for few moths.

    "Launch an FBI raid! More investigations! Arrest him!"

    Biden has documents for 6 years

    "What? Who cares! Orange man bad!":x
     
  23. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    So he's not senile then.
     
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  24. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Nope, trump refuses to give back when asked for, when subpoenaed for, so they went and got them.
     
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  25. Trixare4kids

    Trixare4kids Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe he was senile six years ago when he stole and harbored classified documents and carelessly scattered them around his home though some might think he was senile.
     
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