Our 1st & 2nd responsibilities reflect our priorities.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by bricklayer, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our government's first responsibility is to protect and defend the individual lives, liberty and property of its citizens. Our government's second responsibility is to promote the general welfare of its citizens. The government should not violate its first responsibility in any of its attempts to fulfill its second responsibility. No lives, no degree of individual liberty and no amount of private property should ever be sacrificed to promote the general welfare. On the other hand, the general welfare may well have to make some sacrifices to protect and defend the individual lives, and the liberty, and the private property of its citizens.

    Our 1st & 2nd responsibilities reflect our priorities as a nation. One of the things that makes the United States of America exceptional is that we are constituted to prioritize individual life, liberty and private property over the general welfare.

    As an American, I would not trade my liberty for everything else. Even if I was offered the whole world, my answer would be the same, "Give me liberty, or give me death." That priority is enshrined in our constitution, and it is exactly what makes America great.
     
  2. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those who think of themselves or others, first and foremost, as members of groups rather than individuals are those who would prioritize the general welfare over individual life, liberty or private property.
     
  3. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    One should note that one cannot promote the general welfare by legally stealing from one and giving it to another. In fact I'd argue that the only people who are truly benefited by the transaction are those doing the stealing.
     
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  4. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Isn't government centralized military defense stealing from one and giving to others, according to your definition? The frontline soldier's life is stolen, but life is given to the non-combatants? If that is morally wrong, everyone should be responsible for their own defense.
     
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  5. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Donor

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    Just wanted to repeat that...bricklayer is hard of hearing sometimes
     
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  6. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes. Easy thing to say when you're an old dude sitting in his rocking chair watching Fox News.
     
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  7. fencer

    fencer Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.
    That doesn't preclude a person from voluntarily placing themselves in harms way for the benefit of others, his own remuneration or whatever other reasons or motivations he may have.
     
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'd question the hard line between the two. There's a lot of scope of interpretation of "general welfare" (and some for "lives", "liberty", "property" and "citizens" for that matter) which could at the very least lead to some overlap.

    What if your liberty was impacting the liberty of other Americans?
     
  9. fencer

    fencer Well-Known Member

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    "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." - Thomas Jefferson
     
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  10. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    He definitely tends to regurgitate his same hypotheses over and over again. Now, to his credit, at least his posts are not usually just parroting RW trash blog talking points, like those of too many other RW posters on here.
     
  11. stratego

    stratego Well-Known Member

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    Where do you stand on healthcare for people who can't buy it? Is it life or welfare?
     
  12. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Donor

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    You're right about that. I only attack his ideas when he seems to be passing them off as truth.
    And he does tend to do that sometimes.
     
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  13. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The old dudes that wrote our constitution had rocking chairs, but they did not have Fox News.
     
  14. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Individual liberty extends to all individuals.
     
  15. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you referring to medical care?
     
  16. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The limits to our lives, liberty and private property is defined by the lives, liberty and property of our fellow citizens.
    Neither individual life, liberty or private property should ever be limited in the pursuit of the general welfare.
     
  17. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's why they did such a good job
     
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  18. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They did! They prioritized individual life, liberty and private property over the general welfare. There is no other country in the world that is constituted to prioritize the individual over the general welfare.
     
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  19. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If it wasn't a voluntary transaction then you might be right.

    In this country, everybody wearing the uniform signed the line voluntarily, as an individual, in pursuit of their own ambitions.

    So.. in short... no.
     
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  20. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Donor

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    Perfect! All we have to do now is get rid of Fox News!
     
  21. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't watch TV. I don't participate in "social media". I've never taken a selfie or photographed my meal. I've read well over a hundred books for every video game I've played. I just completed my thirty fifth year in business. I've been self-employed since I was twenty two years old. I take in a lot of information, and then make up my own mind.

    "Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked."
    We cannot altogether avoid the counsel of the wicked, but we don't have to walk in it.
     
  22. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    The US does not conscript, military service is voluntary. Defense funding is not wealth redistribution.
     
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  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Nope we all benefit from mutual defense we all benefit from good roads and an orderly society. The only people who truly benefit from the welfare state are those that run it.
     
  24. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    This is a good topic to look at how our individual view of things can conflict with national interests and how national interests can conflict with long-term general welfare.

    The two responsibilities mentioned are in conflict with each other in the sense that there will always be an individual who feels his rights have been trampled by the majority. Extreme example for argument: If I want to use my property as toxic waste dump because it is my individual liberty and my property, does the government have the right to step in and take away my liberty?

    At what point do we draw the line? How wide should that line be? Shouldn't these kinds of questions be considered before we can discuss this issue as an either/or topic?
     
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  25. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Donor

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    Don’t be too hard on yourself. Many continue to make those same mistakes. It’s sad to see that like yours, their lives will have been nothing more than the dash between DOB and DOD
    Can you name someone that doesn’t walk in it?
     

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