Proposed Green Party Volunteerism Hour or Dollar alternative currency.

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by DennisTate, Feb 17, 2017.

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Might you accept a Green Party Volunteerism Hour?

  1. No.... I would be liable to pay taxes on it.

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  2. Yes... if it was managed professionally.

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  3. No.... the Greens are wrong about pretty much all that they promote.

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    33.3%
  4. I would be interested in researching this further.

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How willing to accept such a financial device might you be willing to be?

    What if the whole thing was planned in such a way that truly was win - win - win - win - win pretty much right across the boards?

    What if Canada's Green Party Leader Ms. Elizabeth May came up with a proposal that USA Green Party Leader Dr. Jill Stein fully supported?

    What if the idea was accepted by the Green Party of Australia and several other major nations?


    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=496117&p=1067115300#post1067115300



     
  2. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    Dennis,

    I don't see how local currencies can do anything that national currencies cannot. IMO, if a nation needs local currencies for a strong economy, then it's national currency is being poorly managed.

    With respect to local currency, help me understand, why, if I lived in one of these localities, why I would prefer the local currency over the national currency?
     
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  3. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    A totally ridiculous idea.

    And, yes, the Greens are pretty much wrong about everything politically.
     
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  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True.... the national currency notes are better in essentially every way over
    an alternative currency but........
    sometimes the only way to convince Washington or Ottawa to make an obviously positive
    policy change is to prove to them that socially active people are willing to
    do what needs to be done, and are capable of doing what needs to be done,
    without the assistance of political leaders.

    I admit that the circumstances that led to the Worgl, Austria local currency experiment being
    replicated in over one thousand USA communities is very different than our set of circumstances right now.



    http://www.politicalforum.com/histo...ria-experiment-can-applied-america-again.html

    Do you think that the Worgl, Austria experiment can be applied in America again?



    A friend of mine has developed an alternative currency unit and is offering me fifty dollars per hour which he considers is a livable wage. At my usual job I make only about thirty percent of that amount as a cleaner at a school.

    An alternative currency can result in our earning more for our time...... and if we are willing and capable of offering a necessary service through a local currency we can usually fill in our down time if we are under employed or unemployed for a part of the year, a part of the month, or for certain days of the week when we would prefer to be working.
     
  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Andrew Jackson, if you, live a reasonable distance from an active Green Party office, and if you
    were willing to go to that office and do interviews and video footage of your disagreements with Americas Green Party, there is a real possibility that Dr. Jill Stein herself might be more than willing to meet with you and debate your concerns one to one on video. That would of course depend on your willingness to give the Green Party the legal rights to use that footage publicly.

    If ten, twenty or a hundred active Green Party members who live within fifty miles from you were willing to accept, for example, two Green Party Volunteerism Hours, per hour for their time to mow your lawn and do most of your yard work...... house repairs and personal shopping for you.......and if...... the USA Green Party were to pay you ten hours or perhaps twenty hours per hour for your time......for interviews...... (because legally usable footage is truly quite valuable).........
    then... you Sir......

    could soon be rather famous... and you could well be getting your yard work done for significantly less effort than you have ever done in the past.

    This possibility could be especially valuable to you as you get older and various aches and pains begin to increase.
     
  6. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    We've discussed in live chat local currencies, so you know that I'm not entirely against them, however, I don't think the political will exists to implement a local currency as conditions haven't reached a state in enough of the US or Canada for these ideas to get the kind of traction needed. The kinds of areas where the will might exist are our nation's most distressed places, but, I'm of the opinion, the people in those communities lack the resources, the support of local businesses - which is key - and politically it's a non-starter.

    The currency you create has to be a debt payable in something. It's not enough to print up dollars and claim they have value. It has to start at the level of business that issues currency redeemable in something people need (food, shelter, energy) or at the local government level where a localized currency is a debt redeemable in tax payments or payments for utilities provided by local government. In return, the local government needs to receive something from the people that helps it reduce its cost in national dollars.

    In short, these kinds of solutions aren't going to happen until we hit bottom. Until those in the business community and the local government level are DESPERATE for solutions little is going to change IMO. So while I totally understand what you're trying to do, I don't believe you're going to find adaquate support. Having said that. Keep up your education campaign, helping people understand money is always a positive IMO, that's what I'm out here trying to do.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The province of Nova Scotia could well be the place where the
    provincial branch of Canada's Green Party might just have the political
    will to get this started.

    The metaphorical gold that would back up this proposed provincial Green Party
    Volunteerism Hour or Dollar, that is not backed up by debt........ is voluntary tutoring of students
    by retired teachers. This volunteerism currency is also backed up by volunteerism to do basic
    household chores, yard work and other basics for those same teachers as they age and require more
    assistance to remain in their homes.

    Nine thousand three hundred teachers, membes of the Nova Scotia Teachers Union are in a
    conflict with the Nova Scotia provincial government that could well relate to a paradigm shift in
    the way we view money in my province..... .and if the idea catches on here it could spread to other
    provinces and into many USA States.

    For the record I am NOT a member of Canada's Green Party but I discuss options with anybody involved in
    any political party who is willing to consider what we may be able to do.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/canad...pdate-teachers-nova-scotia-liberal-party.html
    Subject: Government Update on Teachers (Nova Scotia Liberal Party)
    .....
     
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Theoretically, a Green Party Volunteerism Hour or Dollar could play a major role in
    organizing and financing something along the line of what Mr. Stephen Chafe is proposing:


    I am a member of Canada's Conservative Party who feels that we have to
    admit to the ideas that the Greens happen to be correct about. This is especially
    true in cases where millions and billions of lives may be at stake over the long term.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/envir...long-term-effects-climate-change-logical.html
    Is this analysis of the probable long term effects of climate change logical?
     
  9. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    Dennis, I love your energy and enthusiasm, even if I don't always agree with you politically, but you still don't (seem*) understand the concept of debt.

    What you are describing, "Volunteerism Hour or Dollar, that is not backed up by debt........ is voluntary tutoring of students by retired teachers. This volunteerism currency is also backed up by volunteerism to do basic household chores, yard work and other basics for those same teachers as they age and require more assistance to remain in their homes". IS A DEBT.

    That is, the Volunteerism dollars created can be exchanged for something. Just because people are volunteering does not mean there is no debt. If I take one of these dollars in trade for something it's because I believe I can obtain something with it that I need or want. They are, perhaps, interest-free, but they are not debt-free. You need to stop using the term debt-free. You need to embrace the idea that money that is not a commodity is debt. And that's ok, embrace it. Understand it. We create debts all the time from nothing.

    If I ask my neighbor if he will help me paint my house this year and I promise to help him repaint his, If he agrees I've created a debt! I owe him my labor.

    Producers and governments can create tokens and trade them for things of value with the promise of redeeming that value in the future. Theater tickets, subway tokens, gift cards....All debts repayable in something from the issue at some point in the future.

    Government dollars are debts repayable in the satisfaction of taxes and repayment of legal tender obligations and desires.

    The value of money (money as an instrument of the organization or government that creates it) has value relative to people's need or desire to hold that money in order to obtain or repay the debt the tokens they represent. That's it.

    Now, You want people to do work for free, which frankly I think is a terrible idea. Money isn't scarce, labor is. You would create a situation where free labor competes for paid labor. There would be less paid labor to go around. That is, if the volenteer workers in Nova Scocia spend 5000 hours a year volenteering in the aggragate, are they taking hours away from potential working hours? I dunno, but it is something to think about.
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Essentially all that you wrote is true
    but......"DEBT" is a word..... .is subject to definition......
    and substitution with a potentially better word that creates fewer
    negative reactions in the mind of voters.

    For example.........twenty percent or more of those Green Party Volunteerism Hour notes could be looked at as being
    "PROPS" in a series of semi-reality science fiction films set in a number of time periods?

    For example........ if Canada's Green Party Leader Ms. Elizabeth May was willing to work with
    Mr. Mitt Romney, we could propose a series of films that begin just before he makes his 47% comment,
    in which he does not make that statement...... or at least words it much better and......
    in this proposed Alternative Universe / example of applied Multiverse Theory ... .there does not have to
    be any Hurricane Sandy........
    and voila.... Mr. Mitt Romney ascends to the office of President Elect of the United States in November of 2012.

    Theoretically..... these Green Party Volunteerism Hour or Dollar notes could greatly stimulate the USA and
    Canadian film industry and even become a cash cow for all levels of government.

    My 2012 explanation of this will help you to know what I mean:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/canad...ar-liberal-party-volunteerism-hour-could.html

    A Liberal Party Dollar or Liberal Party Volunteerism Hour could.......
    # internationaltrade: "A Liberal Party Dollar could play a significant role in stimulating certain types of trade with many other nations.

    ......

    Mr. Mitt Romney has the ability to promote at least some relative green technologies or initiatives to
    an entire USA State that has the economic freedom to even mint a State coin or two or three.... and
    encourage local communities, towns or cities to print up local currencies.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-could-utah-state-dollar-save-usa-dollar.html
    Could a Utah State Dollar save the USA Dollar?
    I should mention that one of the most important examples of a word being subject to definition
    would be the word "sex" as so well presented to all of us by President William Clinton!
     
  11. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    You totally lost me. I have no idea what you're talking about....lol
     
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for admitting that!

    I consider you to be one of the most astonishing intellects that I have ever ran into in my
    entire life...... I know that I know that you know five hundred to a thousand percent or more
    about economics than I do.......
    (university level economics anyway)........
    but I wasn't joking about that
    Unified Field Theory of Modern World Problems,
    I am one of the only people on earth using that phrase.

    Basically..... .I want to put forward a win - win - win - win - win
    proposed treaty, or mutual economic trade agreement for the nations of Israel, Jordan, Canada and the
    State of Utah.

    It begins with The Petra Project which is a nine meter wide tunnel from near Tel Aviv, out into the
    Mediterranean Sea that goes all the way down to the Dead Sea, nearly four hundred meters below sea level.

    This nine meter wide tunnel branches in at least seven, and perhaps even 21 hydro - electric generation
    facilities that use salt water. Once the salt water comes out the other end of the tunnel near The Dead Sea,
    the vast majority of it will be desalinated for agriculture, towns and cities, and if any desalinated water is left over
    it can be used up for some reforestation projects.


    In a way...... I am going to attempt to set up the nations of Jordan and Israel for
    what could be termed....."Artistic Unity"... for lack of a better phrase to describe what
    I have in mind.

    My plan does not have to lead to political unity......
    but it will set up an false battle of Armageddon, that
    is really not a battle at all........ but instead is a way of delaying what
    most fundamentalist Christians feel is going to happen over the coming
    decades in Israel.

    The Petra Project as proposed by Mr. Sigmund Ivarsson will cause the economies of
    Jordan, and the P. A. to boom.......

    ....... increased economic cooperation between Jordan, Israel and the P. A. will significantly decrease
    tensions in the Middle East......
    and significantly alter the entire world economy.

    The basic idea is summarized in page one of this discussion:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...u-plan-canada-jordan-israeli-cooperation.html
    P. M. Justin Trudeau and a plan for Canada, Jordan - Israeli cooperation on....
    an alternative method to stabilize the climate.
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One of the options that a Green Party Volunteerism Hour or Dollar could be used for would be an
    experiment in a minimum income for a population willing to take the possible risks involved.

    A Green Party Volunteerism Hour or Dollar would have to be linkable to the USA dollar in the US and to the
    Canadian dollar here in Canada because it would be TAXABLE!





    http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/17/pf/local_currency/index.htm?iid=F_Jump

    Local currencies: 'In the U.S. we don't trust'
    By Blake Ellis @CNNMoney January 27, 2012: 11:13 AM ET

    Theoretically it is possible for Utah's Green Party to begin something that could be adopted by the entire State.....
    and it could begin as something of a friendly squabble with Mr. Mitt Romney....


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney_presidential_campaign,_2012#47.25_comment
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Eventually...... great pressure will be put on many governments to make local currencies illegal.......
    but other nations may decide to simply do what Canada has done which is to tax them......
    and of course it is now possible to completely or almost completely digitize
    a local, Provincial or State currency into a database......

    They truly could become a Tax Cow for all levels of government.........
    which will tend to balance out their relative value in terms of real wealth......


    Please visualize Mr. Mitt Romney......
    starring as himself.......
    in a semi-reality science fiction film project set supposedly in an alternate 2012 in which he is elected President......

    Imagine a treaty between Utah and Israel......
    that soon pays off the national debt of Israel.....
    allowing Israel to purchase more F-35's that on one level are like stages from the point of view of the pilots.....
    and somewhat like props in the minds of producers of various films aimed at
    enacting a shockingly positive but "fake Armageddon?!"


    No nation on earth can really compete with the USA when it comes to English language films of pretty much every genre......

    http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...jamin-netanyahu-lets-get-into-production.html
    P. M. Benjamin Netanyahu, let's get into the production of....
    .... semi reality science fiction film projects that are partly financed through alternative local currencies, and/or State currencies, and/or community currencies......... that address specific problems that human beings are facing now in 2015?
     
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But a group of people who have no where to go but up should be more willing to take risks shouldn't they?
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It may be better to start smaller with this and work up.....
    an active member of Nova Scotia's Green Party has an interesting proposal that could be
    of use in assisting in giving an incentive to teachers who do amazing amounts of volunteer work
    for our young people every year.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/168...tif_t=group_comment&notif_id=1488282011911576

    (me)

    Yes.... if a university.... or two or three... .were willing to accept Citizens Coalition Party Volunteerism Hours or Dollars...... for tuition for courses...... that could be a great way to begin things.


     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am hoping to put in a bid soon.......
    to pay off the national debt of the USA........
    This is possible through a local currency...... .but there is no way that I could convince
    P. M. Justin Trudeau to agree to what I have in mind.............

    ... a four way partnership between Canada, Israel, Australia and the USA.

    Should Sorek 2 be in Australia or California?
     
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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