Putin opens Crimean bridge

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by MrFirst, May 15, 2018.

  1. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cool... he should have driven over some North Korean slaves for symbolism.
     
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  2. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not that I don't know what I'm talking about, it's that you're an apologist for the war criminals in Moscow.

    As for who started this war Assad and his goon squads started it when they brutalized some kids in Daara. As was the case in Lebanon, Assad can only oppress and brutalize people for so long before the lid blows...
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't blame me for your ignorance. The kids in Daara had nothing to do with the insurgency.

    The idea that Al Qaeda and ISIS and other groups of the same ilk cared about some kids in Daara is beyond preposterous nonsense. Only someone who was completely ignorant of the reality on the ground would believe such nonsense.

    I do not like Assad at all but, I am on the side of the People of Syria who are fighting for their freedom.

    You on the other hand support Al Qaeda and ISIS who want to take those freedoms away. Nice.
     
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  4. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    I must admit, seeing these neocon talking points come from you is painful.

    For the love of God... how many Sunnis were killed or displaced by the US government's invasion and occupation of Iraq? How many Yemenis are being bombed and/or starved by the Saudi dictatorship, with the US government's help? Are you just going to ignore the fact that virtually all of the Sunni rebels in Syria belong to Al Qaeda and ISIS? Are you going to ignore the fact that the US government has been fomenting "regime change" in Syria since at least 2006?
     
  5. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    No, the "regime change" fanatics in the US government started it. Leaked diplomatic cables prove that as early as 2006, US officials were fomenting a rebellion in Syria. It also shows that they were deliberately provoking Assad's government in an attempt to elicit an overreaction. These are FACTS. What you are pushing is PROPAGANDA cooked up by the same lying f*ckwits who gave us the wars in Iraq and Libya.
     
  6. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    If you think criticizing the US government is anti-American, then you're the most anti-American person around. If you want to worship the corrupt US government, then go right ahead, but don't act like your government bootlicking makes you a patriot.
     
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  7. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Two wrongs make it right?
    Somehow American “crimes” justify Russian ones?
     
  8. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Not all of them.
    But their equipment uses a lot of stuff that originated in the US.
     
  9. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    No they don’t.
    If everyone wanted out they could organize a referendum.
    How about paRussia - do Chechens want to be a part of that country?
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Once again your ignorance is on full display (despite the fact that you have been corrected numerous times)

    50% of Assad's regular army is Sunni. That Russians have helped the freedom loving people of Syria defeat the freedom hating Islamist extremist rebel opposition was hardly a crime against humanity.

    What was a crime against humanity was the nations who armed and supported the Islamist extremist rebel opposition (Al Qaeda/ ISIS and other groups of the same ilk).

    The other crime against humanity and an affront to human intelligence is not your complete lack of understanding of the conflict in Syria ... it is the fact that you have been informed by others about the nature of this conflict yet still repeat the same false narrative as if you had never heard the truth.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  11. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    I do not think Chechens want to be a part of Ukraine. They want to be the part of Russia. And they are happy about that.
    Groznui.jpg
     
  12. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I think Chechnya wants to be independent they were even willing to fight for that. Twice!
    At the same time, absolute majority of voters in Crimea voted for Ukrainian independence in internationally and Soviet recognized referendum.
     
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  13. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    I do not think that they want to be independent. In that case they would loose all the financial benefits that they have now.
    In March 2003 they had referendum in Chechnya where they voted to stay in Russian Federation. As for Crimea, I think you missed the point- the people there voted for independence from Ukraine in 2014. They have all legal rights to do that as Crimea was an autonomous republic in Ukraine. According to the constitution they had all the rights to make a referendum and quit Ukraine. Apart from that everyone knows that the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine was done in the violation of both the constitutions of USSR and RSFSR in 1954. Presidium of Supreme Soviet simply did not have the right to change the borders of RSFSR. Noone knew at that moment that Soviet Union would collapse. Otherwise, Khruschev would not do that. Has not been the change of power done by force in Kiev in 2014, there would not be an issue about Crimea, it would have been still a part of Ukraine.
     
  14. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wx has been lying and deceiving so much over the last 4 years they've forgotten what 'truth' means.
     
  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No, I criticize the federal government every day. I consider it incompetent and corrupt. This posters comments go beyond criticism of government.
     
  16. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, what is on display here are the vain apologetics from the sympathizers of the war criminals in Moscow and Damascus. What would be ignorant would be to believe your lame and futile attempts to negate, deny and whitewash the crimes against humanity that they have committed and been complicit in, most particularly their ethno-sectarian cleansing campaigns and the deliberate targeting and attacks on civilian noncombatants.

    Unlike the moral and intellectual pygmies who support Assad, Putin, Khamenei & Co., I've been capable from the start of admitting that there are, for the most part, no good actors in this war. Assad, Putin, Khamenei, et al, are scum. Al-Nusrah, Caliph Ibrahim's death cult, et al, are scum. In many respects these dirtbags are doing humanity a favor by killing one another - if they both could somehow manage to finish the job the world would be a much better place without them.

    Here's another thing about the garbage in Moscow and Damascus - when it comes to crimes against humanity, Assad and Putin are serial offenders. The latter is guilty of committing war crimes when he launched his wars of revanchist aggression against Georgia and Ukraine and the thuggery of the former got him and his goon squads thrown out of Lebanon in 2005. That's right - this isn't Bashar's first rodeo.

    In conclusion, permit me to offer you some friendly advice - the next time you think of lecturing me about truth and knowledge do yourself a favor and let that thought go.
     
  17. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not going to dispute your point about the illegitimacy of Kruschev's land transfers within the USSR or even Russia's historical claims to Crimea, but its silly to pretend that the protests in Ukraine were anything other than a phony pretext for Putin's land grab. He began laying the groundwork for that years before he pulled the trigger, just as he laid the groundwork for the invasion of Georgia years before he sent the 58th Army rolling through the Roki Tunnel. I'm not going to say that the politics in Georgia and Ukraine didn't concern Putin, but what ultimately concerned him was securing a base for the Black Sea Fleet, whether it be in Crimea or Abkhazia. The instability in Ukraine was merely a golden opportunity that Putin chose to exploit in order to seize the Fleet's base in Sevastopol.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  18. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    The people in Crimea "voted" when there were armed green little men ahead of the so called vote.

    Khrushchev wouldn't have done it? How do you know what Nikita would've done/not have done, were you around in 54?

    Well the SU did collapse...which was/is a good thing.
     
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  19. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    According to the constitution of Ukraine, any territorial changes must be approved by all regions of Ukraine first.
    There was no referendum on crimeas secession, therefore it’s still part of Ukraine and is subject to Ukrainian laws.

    Let’s face it - Crimea has no future in Russia. Sanctions make it a toxic and isolated region. Many Russian large businesses, like banks, stay away from there in order to avoid being subjected to sanctions. Each year sanctions are getting tougher. Even PayPal doesn’t work there. These problems won’t be resolved till Ukrainian claims against Crimea won’t get resolved and can last for many years.
     
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  20. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    That sir, is debatable.
     
  21. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Two wrongs make it right.
    Just say it!
     
  22. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not an anti-American American. No, but I am a big fan of the wisdom of Mark Twain, who defined patriotism as supporting your country all of the time, and its government only when it deserves it.

    Do you see his message?
     
  23. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    No not at all.

    But your flat declaration that what Russia did in Crimea is a crime, is a statement made in a vacuum. It has no perspective, and it ignores history in very many ways, including cultural history. That declaration ignores the belligerent actions of NATO going back decades.
     
  24. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Putin the kleptocrat. He steals wealth, he steals Super Bowl rings, and he steals land. In the last case, his heavy investment into anti-Ukrainian and anti-Western propaganda ultimately paid off quite nicely, since he had Crimea and eastern Ukraine softened up enough for carving up and consuming without *too* much trouble. I wonder whether he even anticipated and planned around the kind of uprising against his puppet in Kiev that took place in 2014 for just this purpose? He certainly did exploit it very effectively.
     
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  25. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    I know that one can pay with Visa and Master Cards now in Crimea. No problem for that. There are no bank mashines of Sberbank, but there are a lot of bank mashines of the bank that has an agreement with Sberbank for financial operations, so no problem to take money from bank mashines. So the sanctions does not matter too much for Crimea now. Russia has enough own resources, both human and natural to overcome any sanctions. Well, while there was no referendum over all Ukraine now, there were either referendum in 1954, so from historical point of view, I think all is OK and I fully support Putin that he managed to bring Crimea back to Russia. Most of Russians support him as well. As soon as this is the case I am sure that Crimea has future in Russia.
     
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