Putting an end to an ubiquitous meme from Trump loyalists

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lee Atwater, Jul 4, 2022.

  1. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    You've hit the nail on the head, but you got it backwards. You folks cling to the defense of the Big Lie (and the Orange Fraud generally) because not doing so forces you to admit your dedication to a dangerous conman was wrong from the beginning.........as we progressives told you it was.
    BTW, don't think I didn't notice you failed to challenge me on the facts in the post. Which isn't so much sad as predictable.
     
  2. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    This thread reads like a temper tantrum
     
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  3. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Your post had no facts. It is nothing but a silly rant.
     
  4. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    Let me put it in a way that may trigger another kind of reaction. Let's say Hillary Clinton hired a campaign manager who worked for a corrupt Ukrainian politician with ties to Putin. The hired manager had a business relationship with someone the SIC assessed was a Russian spy, Konstantin Kilimnik. That alone would spawn all sorts of conspiracy theories from Trumpworld.

    Manafort associate is Russian spy, may have helped coordinate e-mail hack-and-leak, report says

    The Senate Intelligence Committee said in a report released Tuesday that a key associate of Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort is a Russian intelligence officer who may have helped coordinate the Russian hacking and leaking of Democratic emails, and that Manafort himself may have had knowledge of the effort before the emails were leaked.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...py-may-have-helped-coordinate-e-mail-n1237121

    A spy who ultimately gave proprietary, internal polling data from Clinton's campaign, he obtained from said campaign manager, to the Russian government. Does that help give you some clarity on what you claim is "nothing nefarious?"
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  5. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    It reads like a bunch of cult members experiencing the kind of cognitive dissonance that comes along with having believed Billy the Bagman's fatuous lie that Mueller exonerated Trump, for years. There's a lot of incongruity involved in coming to grips with the facts after having the "Russia hoax" narrative blown up in your face.
     
  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I didn't bother to rise to argue about the exact same issue that we've already argued about maybe a hundred times? Imagine that! The real question is why you brought this issue up again. There is enough history on this in this forum that you could search and relive this same argument again and again and again. The fact that you don't know you've lost is just sad at this point. I think maybe the kids should take grandpa's online access away before he strokes out.
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes every Russian is a SPY. To Manafort he was his friend and business associate and there is NOTHING nefarious about polling data and last I check no evidence this guy gave it to any Russian government agency or had any effect on anything, all just hyper-speculations. You cite is TWO YEARS old..........when was Manafort arrested for being a Russian spy? When did the DOJ or Mueller state he was a Russian spy?

    And it wasn't Clinton campaign internal polling it was the internal polling HE was doing.

    "“....Still, “the Committee was unable to reliably determine why Manafort shared sensitive internal polling data or Campaign strategy with Kilimnik or with whom Kilimnik further shared that information," the Senate report said. The Treasury Department did not directly name Manafort.

    ....Manafort instructed Rick Gates, his deputy on the Campaign and a longtime employee, to provide Kilimnik with updates on the Trump Campaign — including internal polling data, although Manafort claims not to recall that specific instruction,” Mueller’s report added. “Manafort expected Kilimnik to share that information with others in Ukraine and with Deripaska.” There is no public evidence others on the Trump campaign were aware of these actions by Manafort toward Kilimnik, and Manafort left the campaign shortly afterward as stories about his alleged past activities in Ukraine began to dominate headlines."

    OOOHHHHH this secret super-spy for Russia OPENLY told a low level campaign worker to send some data to his friend and former business associate.
     
  8. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    Pretty simple. I got tired of the reflexive references to the "hoax" when members of The Following wrote about the 1/6 investigation. Comparing the current investigation to Mueller's.
     
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  9. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    Let's see if I can unwind that nonsense. Which, BTW, would not be necessary if you read the information I provided.

    The Senate Intel Committee....in its bipartisan report....made the assessment Kilimnik was/is a Russian spy based on the evidence revealed by their investigation.

    The proprietary polling data went through Kilimnik to the Kremlin.
    According to the report, "On numerous occasions over the course of his time on the Trump Campaign, Manafort sought to secretly share internal Campaign information with Kilimnik," and Kilimnik was briefed by Manafort on the Trump campaign's strategy for beating Hillary Clinton.
    "The Committee was unable to reliably determine why Manafort shared sensitive internal polling data or Campaign strategy with Kilimnik," the report says.


    What difference does it make when the story came out?

    No one accused Manafort of being a Russian spy. Just working with one.

    Got it?
     
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  10. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    All hopes the leftist Trump haters have of destroying him are blowing in the wind, ephemeral as disappearing mist. They are failing on every front as is being made obvious in the polls where he crushes all challengers in either party. He is flying high, and will be flying even higher with his refurbished Boeing N757AF.

    Good luck in your Sopwith Camel, Biden.

     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  11. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, that's because his political demise is dependent on the cultish adoration of The Following towards Don eventually waning. Doing so in the wake of overwhelming evidence of his incompetence, corruption, and traitorous behavior would ordinarily be expected by now. But he is a conman of extraordinary skill.
     
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What memo? How about addressing what I actually posted this time?

    Utter hogwash. Had Mueller found evidence of crimes it was his duty to report those to the Attorney General who would then refer that to the Speaker of the House for impeachment and removal so he could be prosecuted. Just as happened with President Clinton. He was impeached but was not removed. Those referrals were held until he was leaving office and he was informed he would indicted but would be allowed to plea bargain since he had already been fined $90,000 in the civil contempt guilty verdict and had settled with Jones to the tune of $900,000. As a result of the plea bargain to those felonies he lost his license to practice law for 5 years.

    Mueller made no such referral, there were no awaiting indictments for Trump when he left office. Why, because the entire Russia narrative was a hoax.

    And BTW if it was some crime or collusion for Don Jr. to accept a meeting with a private citizen from Russia claiming to have some derogatory information about Clinton why wasn't it for Hillary alleging to have been seeking the same, even though we now know they were making it all up. If the Russia thing is true and the dossier was true and Clinton paid to get the dirt from Russia should Durham charge her with a crime?
     
  13. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    He did. The evidence was in his report. But he felt he could not prosecute because of the OLC opinion. How many times must you be reminded of this?

    Hundreds of former prosecutors say Trump would have been indicted if he were not president

    President Donald Trump would have been indicted for obstruction of justice in special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation if he did not hold the nation's highest office, nearly 700 former federal prosecutors argued in an open letter published on Medium on Monday.

    The ex-prosecutors — who have served under both Republican and Democratic administrations dating back to President Dwight D. Eisenhower — said Attorney General William Barr's decision not to charge Trump with obstruction "runs counter to logic and our experience."

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...ay-trump-would-have-been-indicted-if-n1002436
     
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well it's only being compared to a hoax because it is, although I'm sure you totally believe it.
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the DOJ memo that Mueller sited as a reason for not charging Trump

    "Why Couldn’t Mueller Indict Trump? This DOJ Policy Prevented Him"

    https://fortune.com/2019/05/30/indict-a-sitting-president-doj-policy/
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
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  16. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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    You keep saying that but you can't respond to the factual case I laid out proving it wasn't a hoax. Why is that? Never mind, I already know.
     
  17. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Donor

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  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Due process rights are routinely violated by our corrupt criminal justice system.

    “Conservative estimates by the Innocence Project suggest that at least 1% of the people in U.S. prisons are wrongfully convicted. That is 20,000 people.
    Six times more Black men than white men are incarcerated in this country.[1]
    ABC News reported last year that in 2018, in 800 jurisdictions in this country, "Black people were arrested at a rate five times higher than white people." And, "n 250 jurisdictions, Black people were 10 times more likely to be arrested than their white counterparts" in that same year.[2]
    A recent study found that 54% of wrongful convictions that later led to exonerations involved official misconduct — the police, prosecutors or both breaking the rules to get a conviction.[3] This same study found that police and prosecutors are rarely disciplined for this misconduct.
    Thousands of innocent people sitting in jail for collectively hundreds of thousands of years, and rarely is anyone held accountable — this is not justice.”
    LAW360, Perspectives, Why Law Schools Should Require Justice Reform Curriculum, By Donna Mulvihill Fehrmann | October 17, 2021.
    https://www.law360.com/articles/1422515/why-law-schools-should-require-justice-reform-curriculum
     
  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    As you know, I've responded to that exact argument of yours multiple times over the years. You are basically a flat earther at this point.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    YES, he could not SERVE an indictment while Trump was President. That doesn't make anything go away. Had he had found any criminal charges he was to report them to the AG who would then report them to the Speaker of the House for impeachment and removal and THEN the indictment would be served. AS HAPPENED WITH CLINTON. Of course Clinton like Trump was impeached but not removed. So the OIC was kept open and the day before Clinton was leaving office he was informed the indictments would be served. The SAME could have happened with Trump had Mueller found any crimes with which to charge him. He didn't and he closed the office after submitting his report.
     
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  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh just stop it with the strawman.

    THAT is why there is IMPEACHMENT. Did you not follow the Clinton impeachment and the OIC investigation? If he could be indicted were he not President then he would have been indicted the day he left office. Just as with who Clinton was facing when he took the plea bargain. Mueller present NO criminal referral PERIOD. We don't have Special Prosecutors just to see if someone acted badly so they can issue some report that contains no rebuttal by any accused. The are there to bring charges. The course is he makes the criminal referral specially stating the crimes and the evidence and why it should be prosecuted. The AG reviews and to the Congress for impeachment and removal from office. If removed the prosecution begins immediately. If not it awaits his leaving office by losing reelection or ending a second term. With Clinton who wasn't removed in his impeachment the latter occurred and he plea bargained the awaiting felony indictments.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well the CIA makes such a determination not elected politicians but that aside his relationship with Manafort was that as a friend and business associate NOT as a Russian spy. And there was nothing nefarious about discussing the election with his friend and business associate or even showing him their polling data which is not some great national security information. And they have no idea what was even done with. The Russians could go to RCL and the best polling information out there.

    "The proprietary polling data"

    You realize all that means is that a private party paid for it. The polling that NBC, MSNBC, FOX or anyone else is "proprietary". They all control it and release it and discuss it as they please just as campaigns do. And what exactly makes it "sensitive" any more than Rasmussen polling? And it says "secretly shared", he told a campaign underling employee to send it over their email system, how is that "secretly"?

    The difference in when it came out is what happened since it came out........................what prison is Manafort serving a sentence for espionage or being a Russian spy or asset?

    You guys parroted this stuff for years and NOTHING came of it once the details came out yet here you are still parroting it.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Says the man in the mirror.
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    he was very clear that if he thought Trump was innocent, he would of said so

    he never said so
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sorry that is not what was his role. His job was to look for any crimes and refer them to the AG. He referred none. Had he found any it was his duty to make the referral he did not. And Trump has not been charges with one since he left office as Clinton was facing foe the felonies he DID commit.
     
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