Question About Illegal Immigration

Discussion in 'Immigration' started by Brock, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    They deny and disparage individual liberty without actually solving our illegal problem in a market friendly manner which can lower our tax burden.
     
  2. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is, and always has been, a legal way to live and work in the United States. As soon as these folks cross our borders, just ignoring our laws, they become law-breakers, and a slap in the face to those that have chosen the legal way before them. Should we reward them for this? After all, they made this decision, and chose to go ahead with a criminal act. This cannot be tolerated.
     
  3. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Why do we have an illegal problem if there is a legal way to not have an illegal problem?

    All I am suggesting is to use Commerce that is well Regulated among the several States to solve our illegal problem, on a permanent basis that can generate revenue to defray the costs of government instead of simply advocating the coercive use of force of the State through more arbitrary command economics usually associated with truer forms of Communism than with the markets of Capitalism.
     
  4. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ask them. Why are they not following our laws?

    So, being a land of laws is being Communist? LOL!!!
     
  5. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Why should I ask them, if it is our illegal problem, which we would not have, if we were simply moral enough to bear true witness to our own laws by regulating Commerce well among the several States of the Union.

    Being a land of arbitrary command economics is being Communist, in case you missed the point; it is one reason our Founding Fathers delegated the power to Regulate private sector Commerce among the several States instead of simply providing for "A power to destroy the freedom of the press, the trial by jury, or even to regulate the course of descents, or the forms of conveyances, [which] must be very singularly expressed by the terms 'to raise money for the general welfare.'"

    Why not ask the several States to be legal to our own laws and simply charge ten dollars per person, to comply with State inspection laws regarding lawful Commerce within a State?
     
  6. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why not secure our borders, and deport the bastards?
     
  7. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Because I don't believe in communism without a just cause. Why trample our civil liberties and natural rights, over something we don't need to waste taxpayer money on?
     
  8. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You act as if we have to accept the influx of illegals crossing our borders? Why can't we have laws that can be enforced and people respect? Do you think Mexico stands for the illegal problem they have with Central America?

    I still do not see the connection to Communism.
     
  9. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Treading on our privileges and immunities via arbitrary forms of command economics should always be one, sign, omen, or portend regarding this topic.

    I guess you haven't really been paying attention to my more rational argument due to your current subscription to your own propaganda and rhetoric; I am merely advocating for actually solving our illegal problem on a permanent basis via Commerce that is well Regulated among the several States of the Union.

    I agree that we should be moral enough to bear true witness to our own laws; the several States already have a Constitutional remedy to their illegal problem.

    How much will a war on illegals cost? Our wars on drugs, and poverty have been going on for over thirty years. Our over ten year war on terror is only now winding down from a common Offense instead of the common Defense of the United States.
     
  10. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tell me what you are advocating, and don;t just repeat what you have said.

    Any plan involving what to do with illegals must have border security as a first step.
     
  11. DaveInFL

    DaveInFL Banned

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    The illegal problem can be solved easily, politicians are just afraid to do it.

    Just fine $10,000 per infraction any company that employs an illegal. Nobody will hire illegals and they will go home.

    I live in farm country, everyone knows who uses illegals and where they are.
     
  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Let's start with Constitutional authority and specifically enumerated powers for even republicans subscribing to a republican doctrine should be able to understand; the several and sovereign States of our Union already have the Constitutional authority to solve their own problems, by regulating their own markets of Commerce within each several and sovereign States.

    There is no reason why the several States could not charge ten dollars per person to comply with their own inspection laws, since the several States have no Constitutional basis to care if someone is from out of State or from out of state, in order to ensure that their own markets are usual and customary for Commerce within that State and its rule of law. So from that perspective, the several States have no illegal problem; only the general government of the Union has an illegal problem that it was delegated authority over.

    Our federal government could solve our illegal problem by being more market friendly and merely Regulating forms of Commerce well among the several States of the Union. The amusement park model is a proven business model that has done credit to S&P CEO wage ratios. Such a model would reduce any incentive to participate in the black market simply because it would have to compete with a more open market which can be regulated and taxed to defray that cost of government.

    Our borders would be more secure because there would be little to no incentive to be illegal if they could simply purchase a work visa to try their luck in our markets. That, in and of itself, can solve our illegal problem on a permanent basis via the delegated power to Regulate forms of Commerce among the several States of the Union.
     
  13. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Why resort to forms of Communism; merely to resort to the coercive use of force of the State to deny and disparage individual liberty and our natural rights, when our illegal problem can be solved on a permanent basis via Commerce that is well Regulated among the several States of the Union?
     
  14. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ask the Southwestern States if they do not have an illegal problem.

    If all they had to do was pay $10, we would be inundated with illegals.

    Besides, the part of the Constitution you are referencing has little to do with illegals, and everything to do with the slave trade of yesteryear: Link
     
  15. DaveInFL

    DaveInFL Banned

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    Protecting the border is not communism, and the issue of illegal immigration is not a matter of interstate commerce. Illegal immigrants broke the law, employers hire them to willingly skirt the law, both deserve punishment.
     
    onalandline and (deleted member) like this.
  16. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    The Southwestern States don't have an illegal problem since 1808; it is a federal problem not a State problem. It would be nice if our elected representatives could be moral enough to bear true witness to our own laws, instead of merely blaming less fortunate illegals who don't vote.

    If all they had to do was pay a State ten dollars, the State could ensure that Commerce is legal and well regulated with that sovereign State; instead of engaging in political passions of the moment while not claiming to be drama royalty. There would be nothing preventing a now legal resident of a State from being referred to the general government for federal inspection purposes. That being the case, why would anyone want or need to be illegal?

    In case you haven't noticed, the slave trade no longer exists in that form any longer, but controversial forms of importation of persons is still occuring; why not subscribe to the letter of the law since the spirit of the law is not incompatible with modern times?
     
  17. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    It is not a State problem or illegality if they only broke a federal misdemeanor that can analogous to jaywalking across an imaginary State line.

    There are much more cost effective ways to protect our border than a war on illegals, since our other wars on abstractions only seem to waste our exorbitantly expensive superpower while not actually solving the problem, even after thirty years in some cases.

    You bring up an interesting point about employers practicing their natural rights without infringement in any at-will employment State. Why deny and disparage individual liberty and natural rights, simply to become an evil Communist empire?
     
  18. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK, I don't know where you have gone, but come back to reality.

    Illegal immigration is certainly a State and Federal problem. The real problem is the federal government's refusal to uphold our laws, and their constant resistance to States that wish to help themselves for the lack of federal help.

    Your second paragraph is a bunch of nonsense.

    There is no importation of anyone. Illegals cross the border on their own free will.
     
  19. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Can you cite where in our federal Constitution and supreme law of the land, the several States retain any authority over immigration to the Union after 1808?
     
  20. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Why do we have an illegal problem, if persons are not importing themselves without inspection?
     
  21. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, but should the States just stand by while our federal government fails to do its job?
     
  22. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Illegals cannot import themselves. Nobody is importing them. You really need to look up the defintition.
     
  23. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Why can't they import themselves in modern times?
     
  24. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    The several States should not have an illegal problem within their severalty and sovereignty because they delegated that responsibility and obligation to the general government of the Union since 1808; it is no longer a right retained by the several States.

    There is no reason why the several and sovereign States could not charge ten dollars per person for inspection purposes regarding lawful Commerce within that state on labor from out of State.
     
  25. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not called importing. It is called immigration, much of which is illegal, as they have no respect for our immigration laws.
     

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