I have a question I would love to have answered by all the Conspiracy nuts out here. OK, this is actually really simple. Most of those that believe in the conspiracy tend to believe that either Lee Oswald was innocent, or some kind of patsy that had little to nothing to do with the assassination. Of course, then how do you explain his actions following the assasination? Moments after the shooting, he left work and then took a city bus 2 blocks later. He asked for a transfer, but instead took a taxi to his rooming house. His landlady reported that he entered quickly, changed clothes, then left. About 20 minutes later he was approached by Dallas police officer J. D. Tippit. When Officer Tippit left his patrol car, Oswald shot him 4 times. Numerous witnesses saw him flee the scene, holding a revolver and running away. A local store owner saw him duck into the entrance to his store, then duck into a local theatre without paying. That is when the police were called and told where he was. When the police entered the theatre, he appeared to surrender, then struck an officer. A struggle ensued, and he was disarmed. Now he was never charged in relation to the shooting of the President. He was being held for the murder of a police officer. A crime that was witnessed by multiple people. So if he was innocent, why did he go to his rooming house, change clothes, and leave with a pistol. And why did he shoot a police officer? These are not exactly the actions of an innocent man.
You are making an assumption that the actions and events described above are true. It is easy to accept the official government story, in doing so, you won't be ostricized by your friends and peers and get your feelings hurt. Unfortuantely it is typical of the American male today. Going along to get along, a known trait of the Ozians
No, these are the actions as described by multiple witnesses. Do you know of the existance of witnesses that say otherwise? That he did not kill Officer Tippit, or did not run into the theatre?
Yup by witnesses who's testimony fit the lone gunman theory. The WC ommited the testimony by witnesses who's statements did NOT fit the govs theory. Every bit of testimony should have been held as public record. The president of the United States had been assasinated, and if for nothing else, it's historical significance. Anybody who believes the gov should decide what is good or bad for the general public are weak fools, who should leave this country and give up their citizenship.
Thi is total myth and simply not true. They included the account of all witnesses not just the ones in agreement with each other. The government did not even have such a theory as you claim until they checked all known witneses and ALL of the physical evidence. It is conspiracy nuts who ignore the vast majority of witnesses focusing on a cherry picked few who have faulty memory. All the while they ignore the real evidence as well.
You're right you cannot hide the truth but you can ignore it as you are doing. Every one of the witnesses you describe in your post were interviewed by the Warren Commission and gave testimony. Your contention is that they were ignored but if they gave testimony they were not ignored by definition. Police Officer Joe M Smith did not ( as the Mary Ferrell website claims ) state that he encountered a Secret Service agent. Instead he testified that he encountered a man who he BELIEVED was a Secret Service agent although he clearly stated he did not bother to obtain clear identification from the unknown man in question. There were personnel from other government agencies in the plaza many of whom carried badges which superficially resembled a Secret Service badge. If one flashes such a badge in such a moment after a shooting incident involving the president it is natural to assume the person is Secret Service. The Warren Commission investigated Officer Smith's claim and reasonably concluded that he simply saw someone else flash a badge and made the assumption that the person he saw was a Secret Service agent. Arnold Rowland ( and his wife ) gave consistent and clear testimony to the Dallas police, The FBI and the Warren Commission. Sorry but he never claimed to have seen an " elderly negroe " man holding a rifle in the TSBD. He consistently stated he saw a light skinned, caucasion or possibly hispanic man with dark hair in the window where Oswald fired from. He somewhat strangely stated that he saw the individual holding a scoped rifle in the military posture of Port Arms. That description is vague but matches Oswald's general description. And once again this is all found in the WC report. Nancy Perrin Rich provided testimony to both the Warren Commission and to the HSCA the problem was her story had contradictions and discrepencies with other witnesses. The FBI therefore adminsistered a polygraph to her which she failed. In addition an investigation into her background provides a charachter assessment from all who knew her describing her as a fantastic liar who gains entertainment from manufacturing tall tales. In addition she had reason to lie about Ruby whom she held a grudge against after an incident at the Carusel club where she worked as a bartender until losing her job. The meeting she claims to ave had where Ruby acted as a bag man included a uniformed Army full colonel ( her description ) but she never got his name and no such Army colonel could be found in Dallas when her story was investigated nor does any record or other witness recall such a meeting with Ruby and an Army Colonel. Her story was once again thoroughly investitgated by the WC and found to be lacking in credibility. And again by the HSCA which agreed with the WC's conclusion. Albert Bogard's testimony was found to be more credible and even more carefully examined by the WC who went so far as to interview all of his coworkers and even comb throuhg the dumpster where he worked for evidence. Bogard claimed that on November 9th a man named Lee Oswald came to the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership shopping for a car, he test drove a car and then left without buying it claiming he would come back later with enough money for a down payment. The WC concluded that these basic details were probably true but certain problems exist. One problem is that Oswald was known to be staying at Ruth Paines house that weekend. Paine and Marina Oswald positively testified that he was with them the entire day. It is possible that Bogard was mistaken he even admitted he was not sure of the exact date of this encounter. He was not entirely sure it was Lee HARVEY Oswald he encountered. Either way what the conspiracy theorists ignore is that it is all irrelevant. Let's assume that Bogard did indeed have an encounter with Oswald in which Oswald was shopping for a car. We know for a fact that Oswald had no drivers license and was LEARNING to drive with Ruth Paine as his tutor. He may well have been shopping for a car in anticipation of passing his drivers license exam and hoping to buy his first car. Nothing about Bogard's testimony indicates conspiracy. Merely a guy shopping for a car which may or may not have been Oswald and which would have been logical had it been Oswald. And once again all of this is found in the Warren Commission investigation which you ignore. It has been pointed out time and time again that the doctors at Parkland Memorial hospital were trained EMERGENCY room doctors. They were not trained witnesses nor were they trained in evaluating wounds for criminal investigation. There training involved taking whatever measures were necessary to save the life of a sick or injured patient. The doctors did not make any such statement that the wounds to Kennedy entered in the front. They made no such evaluation of his wounds period they instead evaluated the wounds to determine what could possbily be done to save the patient. Years later some stated opinions that the wounds came from the front but that is not compellling evidence when stated years later from a non-expert witness. The bullet was never in pristine or unscathed condition either which is a myth and lie bandied about by conspiracy nuts all the time but prove to be false. Once again it is conspiracy theorists who cherry pick a witness and claim that the government ignored them which the above proves they did not. Once again the Warren Commisssion invluced and investigated all availabel witnesses not just the ones in agreement. You state sure they did as though I am wrong yet you give examples WHICH ARE SPECIFICALLY found in the Warrenh Commission report. Thanks for conceeding and proving my point
wow you have done no research into this case whatsoever.He never shot the police officer.The evidence that he shot the police officer is every bit as flimsy and laughable as it is that he shot Kennedy.You are obviously not aware that his landlord lady and other witnesses ,reported seeing at least TWO men fire at Tippet and then run off in separate directions.Those people died mysteriously later on after mentioning that fact as well. Oh and if you watch these videos and read these posts here below,if you have logic and common sense and not in denial,you can see there was never a shread of evidence that oswald killed kennedy or tippet.the only nuts are the coincidence theory nuts who think oswald killed kennedy. http://www.politicalforum.com/jfk/193550-open-shut-testimony-oswalds-gun-not-6th-floor.html not only do we have the two ladys insisting that their testimonys were altered by the warren commission,other witnesses said so as well which itself is a crime the commission members should have gone to jail for.duh. and open and shut case that that oswald was innocent and it was a homegrown plot below. so much for the lone nut theorists theory that oswald fired the rilfe.as I said before,a photograph taken 30 seconds before the assassination of the sixth floor window shows no rifle,and no man in it.Like he said,they fail. Here's your problem...you have to prove he was on the 6th floor of the TSBD at 12:25 CST and that he fired the weapon. Paraffin test on Oswald's face and cheeks were negative...indicating he did not fire the rifle. You continue to fail.... then there is this- As anyone knows, prints on a murder weapon on not conclusive evidence. The weapon WAS oswalds, so yes, his prints were on it, that doesn't mean he fired it at the president. He was a patsy from the beginning, do you think the one's behind Kennedy's assassination wouldn't make sure his prints were on the gun? and then there is THIS as well- Close to his neck doesn't work... there was a HOLE in JFK's back and a hole in JFK's neck, not in his back and a hole his chest. You really need to understand the laws of physics... As a matter of FACT...HERE is how the Warren Report got around this problem...they LIED. Warren Commission Exhibits CE385 and CE386 It's not about a conspiracy, it is about the truth. If the evidence supported Oswald as the lone assassin, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it doesn't. yep thats what the lone nut theorists do when confronted with truth just like he said below. gave you plenty of evidence that you wouldn't or couldn't address. You ignored it, ran and hid, and then you QUIT...I didn't try to belittle you... BTW. I already KNOW what the Warren Commission said. But you are unable to explain ANY of the discrepancies. You won't even listen to what 2 subsequent government investigations concluded... so much for the THEORY that oswald fired the rifle.lol We don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle. No one has been able to put him in that building with a gun in his hand." —Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry, quoted by United Press International, November 5, 1969 also,like this poster said and proved through these videos on this thread,open and shut case rifle found on 6th floor was not oswalds. __________________ five 9/11 official conspiracy theory apologists on ignore.Reason? they lie when they are defeated and wont look at the evidence.
wow,two police officers experienced in rifles identify the first rifle that was found being later taken out of the dallas police station as a Mauser.Funny how that Mauser dissapeared and funny how the secret service on orders from LBJ destroyed and removed evidence.yep no conspiracy there.
so much for your fantasys and the warren commissions that oswald did it.the warren commission altered styles and adams testimony like they did countless other witnesses because if they did not,they knew oswald would have to pass them on the stairway which he did not.altering witness testimonys is a crime the commission members should have gone to jail for. oswald had an intent to murder kennedy? err apparently you are not aware of the party that was held at his friends house George Demorenshilds whom Marina has always said that Lee praised Kennedy at? which by the way,Demorenshield had connections to the CIA and was found murdered with a ruling of a suicide when it was known that he was going to testify before the HSCA investigation.and guess who's phone number they found in his wallet? CIA director George Bush and future president.Theres all kind of proof out there that Demorensheild and Bush wer pals. Also you did not look at post # 1032 on previous page which exonerates oswald of having anything to do with the assassination.also you need to look at those videos I posted and just reposted through that link as wel that exonerates oswald and proves government compliticy. you are right about one thing though,Oswald was an easy fall guy. SO MUCH FOR THE PROPAGANDA OF THE WARREN COMMISSION THAT OSWALD FIRED A RIFLE AT KENNEDY..Read the paragraphs below.These two women Sandra Styles and Victoris Adams went down the stairs from the 4th floor after the shots were fired and according to the warren commissions timeframe,Oswald would had to pass them and they never saw him pass her.they also INSISTED the warren commission altered their testimonys,something they did with MANY witnesses which itself is a crime the commission members should have gone to jail for. And it was through Lanes book that Barry was introduced to the heroine of the second story he will tell. That second story is about the plight of one of these ordinary people who was swept up by events: Victoria Adams, the notable girl on the stairs. She was an employee who worked in the same building as one Lee Harvey Oswald. The problem caused by her presence is very simple and easily summarized. Adams, along with her friend Sandra Styles, stood on the fourth floor of the Texas School Book Depository at the moment of the murder. She testified to hearing three shots, which from her vantage point appeared to be coming from the right of the building (i.e., from the grassy knoll). She and Styles then ran to the stairs to head down. This was the only set of stairs that went all the way to the top of the building. Both she and her friend took them down to the ground floor. She did not see or hear Oswald. Yet, she should have if he were on the sixth floor traveling downwards. Which is what the Commission said he did after he shot Kennedy. This is the first problem, in a nutshell. Why did Adams not see a scrambling Oswald, flying down the stairs in pursuit of his Coca-Cola? Because of the Warren Commissions timeline, we know Oswald had to have gone down the stairs during this period in order to be accosted in time by a motorcycle policeman. In addition, as we are later to discover, Adams also reports seeing Jack Ruby on the corner of Houston and Elm, questioning people as though he were a policeman. From here the parallel stories broaden out. For Barry began to read more books critical of the Commission. And he would then compare what was in these books with the testimony and evidence in the 26 volumes. Like many people before him, he found something rather disturbing: the evidence and testimony did not completely back up the summary conclusions in the Warren Report. The Commission had selectively chosen evidence to make their case. And they had deliberately tried to discredit witnesses and testimony that contradicted their guilty verdict about Oswald. And the witness that they did this to that really kindled Barrys curiosity was Victoria Adams. As the author writes at the end of Chapter 1, What if she was right? Adams did not find the government eager to hear her story. This is why they badgered her day and night: the FBI, Secret Service, Dallas Police, and the Sheriffs Department. And Victoria noticed something discriminatory about all the attention she was getting: the other witnesses in her office did not receive it, e.g., Sandy Styles who ran down the stairs with her, or Elsie Dorman or Dorothy May Garner who watched the motorcade with her. The attention didnt stop. In fact, even when she moved to a different address these agents followed her. Even though she had left no forwarding address and her new apartment was not in her name. But they still found her. They followed her when she went to lunch. They followed her when she walked around town. When she sent a letter to a friend in San Francisco describing what she saw and did that day as a witness, the friend never got the letter. The question they posed was always the same: When did you run down the stairs after the shooting? Then, another odd thing happened. When David Belin and the Warren Commission requested her to testify, it was her alone. Sandra Styles was not with her. In fact, Barry could find no evidence that the Commission questioned Styles at all. Further, during her appearance, Belin had handed her a diagram of the first floor of the Texas School Book Depository, the place where she and Oswald worked at that time. He asked her to point out where she saw two other employees (i.e., William Shelley and Billy Lovelady) when she arrived at the bottom of the stairway. When Barry went to look up this exhibit in the Commission volumesCommission Exhibit 496he discovered something odd. It was not the document in the testimony. It was a copy of the application form Oswald filled out for his job at the Depository. Further, although Styles did not testify that day, or at all, both Lovelady and Shelley did. And as Barry read their testimony it appeared to him that the Commission was making use of them to discredit Adams. Commission lawyer Joe Ball made sure he asked Shelley when and if he saw Adams after the shooting. And when Barry read Loveladys testimony his mouth flew open. Lovelady brought up Adams name before Ball did! And he called her by her nickname, Vickie. Barry was puzzled as to what prompted this spontaneous reference to Adams. Did Lovelady know in advance that Ball was going to specifically ask about her? Indeed, when she read her own testimony in the Warren Commissionand the Commissions use of itAdams was startled to find major discrepancies, including the time interval as to when she started down the stairs after she heard the shots. This began for her a lifelong burden of living in the shadows, avoiding any publicity dealing with her testimony or her treatment at the hands of the Commission. When her employer, publishing house Scott Foresman, offered her a chance to transfer out of Dallas to Chicago in 1966, she took it. (p. 35) While there, she actually now began to read the Warren Report. She now noted what they had done with Lovelady and Shelley. This stupefied her. Because she did not recall seeing either man after she and Styles arrived on the first floor. (p. 36) discovering documents that bear out her veracity also,those videos I referred to earlier as well as post # prove oswald was innocent but the government was involved. __________________
also in Grodens book,you can see a gunman behind the picket fence with a rifle which is what a few witnesses reported.also 30 seconds before the shooting,there was a photgraph taken of the sixth floor depository and nobody is in the window.plus the first two shots would have been impossible since the tree as seen in the pics taken back then,was in the line of fire making it impossible for oswald to make the shot.as anyone with a brain knows,if he was going to take the shot,he would have done it on houston which is a far easier shot to make,nothing obstructing his view or anything.
If you notice, I am not saying a single thing about the Kennedy Assasination. I simply want people to give me some evidence that LHW did NOT shoot Officer Tippit.
Well, how could I have looked at it, when I have not been online for several days now? Some of us have real jobs you know. jobs that can keep us away from the computer for days, or even weeks. Nice rambles. Do you have any proof of this? And I mean proof, not just your own say-so or the say-so of some other conspiracy nutcase? Because just like the Truthers, everybody that tries to claim LHO was innocent tries to do it 10 different ways. Show me some valid verified eyewitness reports from at least 12 people that say he did not do it. Because that is how many people actually witnessed the shooting, and say that he did shoot Officer Tippit. Do not give me conspiracy rambles, give me facts. Oh, and before you scream at me again for not responding fast enough, let me warn you that I am not going to be on for a few more days. And it will be like this for most of the rest of the month. I do not even get cell phone transmissions where I am at, let alone internet.
It is clearly not others but you who has never done any proper research. Most of what you have claimed above is ruined by one simple fact. Oswald's landlady did not state, describe or testify in any way concerning Tippets shooting simply because she was not there. The shooting of Tippet took place several blocks away from her and she was not a witness at all. Funny you can name none of these witnesses you describe and for good reason. The reason is they are a very small number of unreliable witnersses who have PROVEN to be unreliable where as many others such as Barbar Davis, Virginia Davis, Literally saw it happen in front of their home and positively identified Oswald as the only person shooting a gun at Officer Tippet. In addition the physical evidence ( his gun the bullets the shell casings ) are all slam dunk evidence against Oswald. As is the evidence that he shot Kennedy. The evidence againts Oswald is not and has never been flimsy or laughable unless one is ignorant of what evidence MEANS. The evidence against him is overwhelming and never refuted. Obviously you ignore this fact because it undermines speculation based conspiracy fantasy. Paraffin tests for example NEVER proved that he did not fire a gun. They never provided such proof in ANY criminal case. They can onloy prove that some one DID fire a weapon not the opposite. Lack of a positive conclusionn ina parraffin test is not evidence that one DID NOT fire a weapon. The tests are unreliable and that fact is proven by the FBI before Kennedy was shot. Yes many witnesses placed OSwald on the sixth floor alone. How do we know? Because they saw him there and then left leaving him the only one remaining on that floor. One need not provide a witness who actually SAW him firing a weapon. The physical evidence is crushing and even better than the evidence used in most criminal cases. Witnesses are never the primary compelling evidence. Witnesses are unreliabel and faulty and any attorney knows this fact. Another fact is that most cases of PREMEDITATED murder involve no eyewitnsses for the simple reason that if a person of evn low intelligence plans to commit a murder they will probably try to do so out of view of anyone else. Try rwading the evidence instead of focusing on the discredited and weak conspiracy nuits who you exclusively believe.
Who said they were experienced in rifles? They admitted to making a simple mistake for the simple reason that a mauser and carcano are superficially similar in appearence. This is not evidence of conspiracy or two rifles.
Um no sir YOU handpicked them and misrepresented them I corrected you. Therefore since these examples are yours is is you with a weak case.
Here is a simple test. Please everybody, name these 2 weapons: OK people, try your skills in identifying the rifles I pictured above. There are 4 different rifles. Now glance at each of them for no more then 1-2 seconds, and tell me which is which. Now remember, you have probably never seen the rifles pictured before. This is like those that tried to identify the rifle LHO was seen with. There are thousands of rifles. And to most raised during and after WWII, they were generally classified into 2 groups. "Domestic", which is the M-1903 and M-1, and "Foreign", of which Mauser was the largest manufacturer. Since I will not be here, I will give you the answer now. The top is a Caranco Model 91/38, the type LHO used. Next is a Lee-Enfield Model I, used by the UK from 1895-1926. Next is the Mauser K98, based on the WWI era Mauser Gewehr 98. And finally, we have a US M-1903A3 Springfield. Now while I am not a "Gun Nut", I am more knowledgeable in rifles then most people. And of all the rifles shown, I would only be able to accurately identify the last one, the Springfield. That is because all through High School I had one of these issued to me as part of ROTC.
There is no evidence he did. He owned a weapon He worked at the book depository There is no proof he was on the 6th floor when the prez passed by There is no proof he fired a weapon from the BD
He is asking for evidence about the Tippet shooting not the Kennedy shooting. And you are wrong on both counts. There is excellent proof of every kind placing him on the sixth floor shooting his weapon and not a shred of evidence of any other shooter other than a very few weak ear witnesses.
that was something i posted at another site to a different poster because like you and soupnazi,they wont addres that video and points.Nice dodge.your doing the soupnazi thing,avoiding watching those videos and not addressing any of the facts or evidence in them or any of the facts I posted.. like him,your just doing this. and this typical of the way lone nut theorists debate.
all of this rambling is irrelevent in the fact that police officers who unlike myself,WERE experienced in rifles, identified the weapon as a mauser.Roger Craig as you can see from this link,even said he saw where the rifle said on it a Mauser.http://jfk007.com/wowzer-a-mauser/ Unlike the other officers,he refused to change his story and it cost him his life.Those other officers knew what would happen obviously if they did not change their story.Be murdered and be have the official version be told that they died in an accident as well.since so far,you have proved your just afraid of the truth and havent resorted to lies like Soupnazi always does,I will continue this discussion till you start doing the soupnazi thing and start resorting to lies or will stop soon as well if you continue to do the soupnazi thing,evade those facts in that video and my post I brought up and not even try to address it.
