Raising the minimum wage is good for the economy.

Why? Why is this true? What about the workers that would get laid off that don't *need* a living wage? They are just supplementing household income. Should all the mechanics at a car dealers service bay get laid off because the guy sweeping the floor doesn't get paid a living wage?

I made *less* than minimum wage starting out in the hayfields of Kansas. The leader of the hay crew wouldn't pay me more until I was capable of being strong enough to handle what the rest of the crew handled. He couldn't afford to pay any more for a less-than-productive employee.

Should he have closed down his hay crew? What about the farmers that would have seen their hay get wet and mildew in the fields because there wasn't enough crews to get all the hay in on a short time frame.

The Marxist labor theory of value simply doesn't work. You are *NOT* worth the amount of labor you expend.

You are advocating "from each according to ability and to each according to need". This meme has *never* worked and never will.

 

Of course you don't get it.

Why was the wage going down prior to 2013 in the states who increased the minimum wage? While the wage was going UP in the states that didn't increase the minimum wage?

This would indicate other factors are at play besides the minimum wage!

 

There are some laws on the books for monopolism and anti competitive practices. These are rarely enforced.

Then you have regulations that help the Oligarchs keep the little guy from competing and tax law that is a joke.

 

But that doesn't make a person or nation "Marxist".

No, –that the value of something is directly related to the amount of labor used in making it. If it weren't true, you and the rest of the right would not be complaining that the MW will kill jobs and raise prices.

That's why they aren't paid as much. Duh

He didn't "get around it", he explained it and accepted it.

I refuted your "Marxist Democrats" tripe. You never responded with any attempt to question it. So I'm not going to deal with anything you connect with that false, bogus, extremist term.

 

It's already been done. The Autoworkers union used to make the layoffs fall on the newer employee, until they negotiated a deal where if you were laid off, you still collected 80% of your pay. Then they decided that the young families couldn't afford to get laid off, and let seniority (and experience) sit on it's butt at home- making 80% of senior union wage for doing nothing. This is way the unions see "fair" in the employment game.

Demanding doesn't mean getting. It does often mean causing turmoil and trouble to the point that the employer will decide they must pay to make the trouble go away before the business fails- and try to find a way to pass the cost on to you, the customer who is ultimately paying the bill. That would be called extortion under other circumstances. If businesses all got together and agreed to demand a certain price, that would be criminal, as in collusion and price-fixing.

Funny how the double standard is so completely acceptable to so many people who think of themselves as honorable.

 

And there we have it folks ... a poster so bereft of material that all they can do is throw insults from the peanut gallery prior to running to the playground to stick head deep in the sandbox of denial.

 

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have trouble reading a graph! -AGAIN!
Since 1996 it went no higher than 8% and a fraction by that chart. And the top of 8.x% coincided with the world crash and our own unemployment rate. And now it is back down as ours is, and about the same as ours.

SO there's no impact of automation shown in that graph, and your ability to read it is in need of something.

Never. But I do expect a person taking an opposing stand to substantiate his claim. IT'S NOT MY JOB TO DO IT FOR HIM.

 

Because the business plan is a failure if it can't pay a minimal living wage, we don't need it.

 

When you advocate for Marxist polices then expect to be identified as a Marxist. Being ignorant of Marxism is not a defense.

Oh, MALARKY! Man 1 takes a piece of steel and spends 40 hours pounding it into a ball, perhaps useful as a cannon ball. Man 2 takes a similar piece of steel and spends 40 hours pounding it into a useful butcher knife.

Under *your* labor theory of value the lump of steel in a ball would be worth the same as the knife made out of steel.

The guy who only knows how to pound a piece of steel into a lump would make Minimum Wage. The other man would make significantly more. *THAT* is what conservatives believe. You are what you are worth.

They aren't paid as much because they don't produce as much.

Of course he tried to get around it. And failed. A cannonball is just as much "socially necessary" labor as a knife. But their "value" is most definitely *NOT* the same.

You didn't refute *anything*. All you've done is make authoritative pronouncements with absolutely nothing to back them up! Statements like:

"For you, any law to rein in the excesses of capitalism is "Marxist". And that illustrates what you and I have been arguing over: you don't know what Marxism is and its difference versus sensible laws required to keep capitalism from harming the public."

are meaningless. First, government mandating a minimum wage doesn't rein in the excesses of capital excesses. Second, you just claim I don't know what Marxism is but at every turn I can back up my assertions with quotes from Marx and Engels while you provide nothing but your own authoritative statements that mean nothing. Nor is a minimum wage raise keeping capitalism from harming the public.

Again, all you do is repeat Marxist Democrat talking point lies that you learned somewhere at some time. You don't really have any kind of support that you can provide for the lies, not even theoretical let alone from Marx or Engels.

PATHETIC. SIMPLY PATHETIC.

 

You didn't address a single point I made.

How can a business plan that pays mechanics a living wage be a failure?

All you are saying here is that there is a lot of jobs out there that you don't think very highly of. The guy handing out pamphlets on the corner is going to have a hard time earning a living wage. And you apparently don't think much of the guy doing that job because you would put him out of a job.

That's real tolerant of you.

 

You are *still* whining. Stop it.

Provide something of import or give it up!

 

Oh JUDAS H PRIEST!

I said "Here's a look at the UK"

Is the UK and France the same country on your globe!

Your post said nothing about automation. You wanted to know the unemployment rate in Europe.

I provided some of those to you!

YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING FOR YOURSELF!

 

Not a single person on the right opposes states raising the minimum wage to a place that fits their local costs of living. What they oppose, is DRAMATIC increases nationwide. At no point in US history, has the minimum wage been doubled. The ONLY reason the minimum wage continues to stay where it is now, at the national level, is that Democrats are insisting on this ridiculous doubling of the minimum.

 

What does "The Marxist labor theory of value simply doesn't work. You are *NOT* worth the amount of labor you expend" mean? ... that "you are worth less than the amount of labor you expend"? WTF

Test time. What system does "from each according to ability and to each according to need" relate to? Do you know?

 

And you can't follow a conversation and make sense. Why are you flipping from France to the UK as though the graph of the UK is also the experience of France and you're using it as an example? Try talking a straight, intelligent line. you're all over the map!

 

The minimum wage doubled from:
1939 - 1950 = 11 years
1950 - 1968 = 18 years
1965 - 1978 = 13 years
1968 - 1981 = 13 years
1979 - 2007 = 28 years

http://bebusinessed.com/history/history-of-minimum-wage/

Now some are calling for a doubling from 2009 - 2020 = 11 years. Not so extreme, is it?

 

The minimum wage has never been doubled, ALL AT ONCE. This reply does not make you look smart. Just sayin....

Democrats are the ONLY thing keeping the minimum from being raised. Nobody is ever going to agree to doubling the wage. That would put millions of people out of work, and millions of businesses out of business. Economics is a science, and it doesn't care if you believe in it or not.

 

The MW has been neglected by republicans. Just sayin'.

[/QUOTE]
How much would you raise it? To $7.50? $7.60? $9?

 

You are worth what you produce. Nothing more, nothing less.

----------------------------
Acts 4:
32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

36 Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”), 37 sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles’ feet.
-----------------------

Do you *really* have any idea what this actually protrays? It is people being charitable with their private property.

It is *NOT* giving government everything and letting government parcel it out.

One of the major problems with Marxism is the abolition of private property. I already gave you that quote out of the Communist Manifesto.

With no private property to use for charity what Acts 4 describes wouldn't even be possible!

 

How much would you raise it? To $7.50? $7.60? $9?[/QUOTE]
Probably around $10, but in stages to limit the negative aspects. In a perfect world, there would be no minimum wage though. If you create a good economy, there is too much competition for labor, for employers to get away with wages that are too low.

 

He's trying to say that there is no difference in the cost of living among all the states.

Not very informed.

 

Unfreakingbelievable!

You asked about EUROPE. France and the UK *are* part of Europe to most people! I gave you the experience of TWO countries in Europe.

I told you what the experience of France is and gave you a graph on the UK. I got the information on France from the same spot and the same kind of graph as I got for the UK.

Are you *completely* unable to do *any* research?

*I* am going in a straight line.

The EU unemployment rates *are* out there on the internet but I am loathe to provide them to you. Instead of just making unsupported statements you should learn to research this on our own!

 

Do you know that that is what the proposals are? There are several states that increased it to $9.32 or $10.50 this year, and plan to increment it to $15 by 2020.

http://time.com/3969977/minimum-wage/

 

What is the difference if any between this and universal income?

 

You work for a minimum wage; you don't work for universal income.