Redistribution of American Wealth

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by cirdellin, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Deciding"????

    Did you actually think that the author of the OP is expecting a person who actually decides that would respond to them?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  2. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Again, disparities in income are not prima facia evidence of unfairness.
    NFL players make way more than janitors and NFL players produce very little social good as janitors do but nobody complains about that.
     
  3. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    I'm also not comfortable telling people what will make them happy. However, taxes is one of those things you have to do and we have to pick the targets of our taxes. If we switch to a flat tax, then working class people will pay more in taxes than they did before, and rich people will pay less.

    Even if you dramatically cut government spending, we will have to keep taxes on working class people the same while the only/most significant tax cuts will go to the wealthiest who need them the least. I'd rather give tax cuts to those who are struggling those most.

    Rich people have seen their incomes rise significantly more and are doing so much better. The rich really don't need tax cuts and progressive taxes works really well to give working class people a break.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  4. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    But hedonism isn't the primary driver...
     
  5. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    My ex wife came from a very very wealthy family and they hated hated hated the idea of a flat tax as they realized it would force them to pay taxes they did not want to pay. The so called progressive system has more loopholes than a wheel of Swiss cheese. The wealthy love it.
     
  6. (original)late

    (original)late Well-Known Member

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    That is mostly damage done by Republicans in the 80s. (Read the Triumph of Injustice)

    Anyone sane hates it, it's the opposite of Progressive, suicidally unwise..
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  7. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    What is the primary driver in your opinion?
     
  8. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    No it is the business of congress to write laws that do not allow anyone to buy influence. They have failed miserably.
     
  9. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    As conservatives like to point out, the income tax disproportionately impacts the wealthy. The poor and middle class pay an effective income tax rate of 3-7%. The top 1% pays an effective income tax of 23%.
    https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-0/

    However the poor and middle class pay a larger percent of regressive taxes like sales, property, social security, and payroll taxes. We can also consider health insurance as a kind of tax as well that other countries cover with taxes.

    If you replace the income tax with a flat tax, this will shift hundreds of billions of dollars of tax burden off of the wealthy onto the working class.

    That wealthy family may be earning so much that the vast majority of their income is in capital gains at a rate of 15% not normal income. Their expenses are so low relative to their wealth that the other taxes are negligible.

    The solution is simple. Remove all the loopholes from income taxes, and then adjust by lowering tax rates. We can then tax capital gains at the same rate of this lower income tax rate. At the very least, raise capital gains rates for very high wealth.
     
  10. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    The wealth disparity is a non issue. It's just the same old haves vs have nots.
     
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  11. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Since when does "social good" determine the worth of someone's labor?
     
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  12. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    I don’t know if you really read my post.
    In my candid conversations with the very wealthy, they were as opposed to a flat tax as you are because they would have to pay far more taxes than they do now. My ex father in law thought the wealthy should pay no taxes!!

    My own father thought that all taxes should be from a national sales tax because everyone has to buy things.

    But I’m not in the US anymore so go ahead and take other people’s money and raise the tax rate to 99.9 percent of earnings and eliminate incentive and speed up the Chinese competitive advantage.

    I don’t care what happens to you anymore.
     
  13. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    I’m making a point to those who have made social good an idol.
    Do NFL players make too much or are they worth it because football is fun to watch?
     
  14. Chrizton

    Chrizton Newly Registered

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    Are you saying that a collective 20-25% of the market value that is retirement plans don't inflate stock prices?
     
  15. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Income gap" is not "different income levels"
     
  16. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    This is correct. No one's income nor wealth need be limited. Government's job is to tax, and a return to true progressive taxation would be a start. Returning to 90% rates isn't necessary, though letting someone keep $100,000,000 from a billion dollar income isn't going to make me shed any tears.

    People got plenty rich during progressive taxation. They'll still get rich, just not as fast. Time to give tax breaks to the little man.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  17. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Ok I ask in exasperation now. What tax rate for what income?

    What specifically do you want?
     
  18. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    There are very big differences between different wealthy people and some get hit harder by some taxes than others. Different wealthy people pay dramatically different rates on different taxes. Overall though, the wealthy pay pay higher effective tax rates, especially higher federal tax rates, than most people and would benefit from the tax rate being equal.
    [​IMG]
    https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0102_tax-rates

    You also can't say that a flat tax will raise taxes on the wealthy without some details. It depends on what you want the flat tax rate to be and what taxes we are replacing it with.

    I obviously don't believe in raising taxes to 99.9%. I think we should replace all federal taxes with just the income tax with no loopholes. We can adjust the tax rate to have the same effective tax rate on each income group federal taxes did before. I'd try to adjust the current federal spending to spend more effectively to help people.
     
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  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course there are solutions that do not involve wholesale slaughter - kind of a ridiculous thing you are saying.
     
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its ridiculous ... they make our Gov't look acceptable .. - Still had Cannibals in power up until not to long ago .. Where is that Idi Amin Guy these days :)
     
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  21. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    What I'm sure of is that they don't create this out of control income inequality. Unless you can prove that they do.
     
  22. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    That would be up to economists to figure out. It's not like it's never been done.

    It's a return to the '50s. When the rich paid more and "union made" was a proud mark. Trump apparently forgot that part of 1950s America.
     
  23. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Donor

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    ~ Could he have been dinner for a few hungry villagers ..? :drool:´:knifefork:
     
  24. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Given the fierce resistance by the wealthy to a flat tax, it would appear that they perceive that their wealth is endangered.
    I also think that Investment needs to be taught as early as high school because not enough people are doing it.
    Most of my money is from investments and while my IRA foundered under Bush and Obama my carefully studied investments took off after the first couple years of Trump and withstood the Corona nonsense only losing 15 percent and now almost back to the pre Corona level. Better than anyone investing during the Bush/Obama period did that I know.
     
  25. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    I’m not asking economists, I’m asking you.
    Do you not have faith in your own judgment?
    Too many wealthy people, right?
    What do YOU specifically suggest should be done?
    SOMETHING should be done but you don’t want your practical suggestions to be scrutinized so you say let’s leave that to the smart people.
    That’s a cop out to me and makes me wonder about the state of your self confidence.
     

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