REVEALED: Israel’s IDF Used Passenger Airliners as Cover During Christmas Day Attack <MOD WARNING>

LOLOL

Oh boy, a typo.


What the fu-k is your Hasbara Handbook

 

Re:

Show where or remain exposed as a deliberate liar & in good company with your fellow Liberty Deniers.

 

1) Timeline of the attack and your characterization of it shown to be false (by the information in your own Chicago Tribune link).
2) Claiming that the Israelis intended to "sink the ship and kill the crew" when you have no way whatsoever to validate what the Israelis intended. Which given the inappropriate weapons used in the initial air attack would invalidate this.
3) You claimed the Israelis jammed the frequencies used by the Liberty without providing evidence.
4) You claimed the Israelis attempted to shoot down an American aircraft that monitored radio traffic involving attack. Despite requests from me you never replied to my request for evidence.
5) You never explained why the Israelis used aircraft NOT in the Egyptian or Soviet inventory.

6) I won't dwell on your repeated use of worthless conspiracy sites as "evidence".

7) You've claimed personal experience that supposedly gives support to your anti Israeli claims. Such as the claim you were part of an airborne unit which assigned to "die for Israel" Without supporting evidence I'm calling BS on this one.

You deliberately mischaracterized the statements of an Air Defense unit in Israel as the American commander saying they were there to "die for Israel".

Can go on and on. But I suspect you'll post the exact same BS links and claims. And you'll try to claim I'm some kind of shill for the Israelis.

 

A reminder for Grau, RiaReb & others:

“That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” (Christopher Hitchens)

 

Eye witnesses accounts are always used as evidence in courts

 

And very often dismissed without coroborating evidences.

 

One eye witness account, possibly, 20 eye witness accounts all reporting the same version of events, very unlikely. However, the point is that no trial has taken place where these eye witness accounts were described in court

 

Years after the fact and none of the other crew members, which amount to way more, reported the same.

 

Most of the crew members were below deck so would not have seen anything to report

 

They fired a rocket, they know that.

 

They were way more than 20 crewmen on deck during the attack, don't be silly.
Friendly fire exist in all wars including the most recent. Hell, the US bombed the Canadian in Afghanistan twice and both time they were in radio contact with them.
They did the same with the British during the Iraq war.

 

Must have been a Jewish pilot getting revenge.

 

In regards to eyewitness accounts aboard the U.S.S. Liberty, remember that the courageous captain who was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions and selfless efforts in fighting the damage to his ship......made a mistake when remembering details about the attack on the Liberty.

He thought that two of his machine gun mounts had opened fire on the approaching Israeli torpedo boats. One (which had not received his order to not fire) had fired on the Israeli gun boats.

The second, whose fire the captain described as "highly effective" NEVER fired. What the captain saw and heard (and Israelis aboard the torpedo boats who made the same mistake) was machine gun ammo cooking off due to the heat of the fires aboard the ship.

So even the most experienced and well trained man aboard ship with a clear view of events as they unfolded made an obvious mistake about what was happening at that time.

 

Your desperation is showing. I asked for you to show where you've proven me wrong Re: Israel's deliberate attack on the USS Liberty & you have still failed to do so.

You know that I have already explained to you that reports vary on the duration of the initial Israeli reconnaissance but you trot it out anyway as attempted proof of my dishonesty.

1. For your education, I provided several links reporting varying Israeli recon times with the pro Israel MSM(1) "Chicago Tribune" predictably choosing the shortest recon time 5 hours and the more credible U.S. Naval Institute reporting nine hours.(2)

The success of this extensive cover-up is due largely to that same pro Israel MSM that buried that deliberate betrayal on page 4 of the NY Times the day after the attack.

Israelis complicit in the cover up have also correctly relied on the gullibility of their most ardent supporters & complicit Liberty Deniers(3). You & your fellow Liberty Deniers are continuing to work for them whether you know it or not.

2. The Israeli choice of ordinance is something else I've already explained to you in great detail once before so, your being dishonest when you include on your list of fallacies.
Firstly, the thin skinned Liberty was never intended to be a war ship & was initially a lightweight cargo ship that should have sunk with the IAF use of 30 mm "Tank Buster" rounds, rockets, & .50 cal AP ammo.
The 500 lb bomb you recommended would have scattered too much debris when Israeli orders to not leave a "trace" while international help was either near by, international subs were in the area.

The Israeli order to sink the ship & "leave no survivors." was reported in the Chicago Tribune you don't seem to have read very closely(4)

The rest of your nit picking is really just requests for more information for you to either ignore, distort, obfuscate and/or forget.

The fact remains that the Israelis could not have misidentified a one-of-a-kind, clearly marked ship with 20' tall hull identification numbers, a 13' American "Holiday Flag" on a day with perfect visibility.

Since you've never served, you can't imagine how repulsive it is to loyal American Veterans who served in S.E. Asia and endured verbal abuse from traitorous low life individuals at "home" to listen to the the even worse, foreign orchestrated slanderous abuse and betrayal of fellow Veterans whose eyewitness accounts are every bit as credible as anyone on this forum.


(1) “U.S. media coverage reveals a pro-Israel bias”
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2014/09/01/commentary/world-commentary/u-s-media-coverage-reveals-a-pro-israel-bias/#.WMLm5mafK_U

EXCERPT “Why does TV news look like a Netanyahu ad?” asked Chris McGreal of The Guardian on July 31, in his article on the “notoriously pro-Israel mainstream media in the U.S.”CONTINUED


(2) "The Spy Ship Left Out in the Cold"
https://www.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2017-06/spy-ship-left-out-cold

EXCERPT "At 0515 on 8 June—soon after the Liberty arrived off the coast of the Sinai Peninsula—the first Israeli reconnaissance plane circled the ship several times. That initial recon flight on the morning of the war’s fourth day began a steady pattern of observation that continued for hours. A State Department report later determined that recon planes buzzed the Liberty as many as eight times over a nine-hour period. Some planes flew so low that crewmen on deck could see the pilots."CONTINUED


(3) "WHAT DO ISRAELIS THINK ABOUT AMERICANS? START WITH DISDAIN"
http://forward.com/news/israel/216074/what-do-israelis-think-about-americans-start-with/

EXCERPT " Though Israel is a famously fractious society, Israelis tend to agree on one thing: Their strongest supporters are an inherently dupable people.

“Most Israelis think Americans are pro-Israel and we can sell them anything, especially mud from the Dead Sea,” said David Lifshitz, the lead writer for the Israeli comedy show “Eretz Nehederet,” or “Wonderful Land.”

“Or — just regular mud with a ‘Dead Sea’ sticker on it.”CONTINUED


(4) "New revelations in attack on American spy ship"
https://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-liberty_tuesoct02-story.html#page=1

EXCERPTS "The [Israeli] ground control station stated that the target was American and for the aircraft to confirm it," Forslund recalled. "The aircraft did confirm the identity of the target as American, by the American flag.

"The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target and ensure they left no survivors."CONTINUED

 

You make it too obvious you are bullsh-ting when you list a set of BS events, you know nobody is going to answer, instead of listing them one at a time, because you know they will get shoved down your throat.

Nobody is going to respond to that crap.

 

Please list the "Friendly Fire" incidents that lasted over an hour, comprised over 800 rounds fired, were preceded by hours of close visual reconnaissance, occurred with perfect visibility & included strafing rescue personnel (medics), a war crime.

 

LOLOL
and now you expect someone to go through miles of military encounters and write a list for you.

First you make a list, that nobody is going to read, much less respond to, then you make an impossible demand,
and somehow in your mind, this makes you correct..
Well it does not, In fact, it adds more proof you are wrong.

You need to grow up.

 

Except you have proven NONE of that through actual physical evidence verified by independent sources.

You are a military veteran. Do you know how quickly four aircraft can fire off more than 800 rounds of cannon and rocket fire?

I make it at about two or three passes each at most by the four Israeli aircraft.

And you maintaining that the Liberty had a "one of a kind" look to me more than anything indicates why Israelis would not properly identify it.

 

The destroyed USS Liberty, 34 dead American G.I.s, over 800 holes in the ship and bullet ridden life rafts & hours of close, visual Israeli recon on a perfectly clear day are all hard evidence any reasonable person would need to conclude that the attack was no "accident". No one disputes this hard evidence or the fact that the Israelis put those 800 + holes in in the Liberty not including innumerable .50 cal. holes.

Because the Liberty's officers could identify the flags & hull numbers of the Israeli torpedo boats its impossible for any rational person to believe that after hours of close recon, the Israelis didn't see the 20' tall hull numbers & a fresh, new 13' "Holiday Flag".

Furthermore: "Israel had conclusively identified the Liberty as much as 26 minutes before the fatal torpedo strike." (1)
The fact that Israel continued its massacre after "conclusively" identifying the Liberty as American debunks the stubborn "accident" myth.

Re:

If you're asking the duration of the attack, it was just over an hour & the Israelis deployed more than cannon & rocket fire that included napalm & .50 cal AP to execute the entire crew. The fire rate of 30 mm"Tank Buster" ammo is, naturally slower than .50 cal. BMG AP but these are diversionary, irrelevant details

Re:

Among the most hard & fast rules of any military such as "Loyalty", "Leave no man behind." is to "Know your target & ideally, know what else is downrange."
No Israeli enemy, especially Egypt had anything as clearly visible & sophisticated as the freshly marked & flagged Liberty.

Secondly, the Israelis knew that the Liberty was an intelligence gathering ship, knew which channels it used & intentionally jammed those same exact channels. They knew it was an American ship & knew exactly which American ship it was.

Thirdly, life rafts are pretty common & easily identifiable in all navies. If the Israelis were confused about the Liberty, which they were not, why did they target & destroy something as common as the Liberty's lowered life rafts at close range if not to "...leave no survivors?

I suspect that you're aware of Occam's Razor which, according to Wikipedia: " is the problem-solving principle that essentially states that simpler solutions are more likely to be correct than complex ones."

The simplest answer is the eyewitness accounts of the crew & the common sense that if Liberty crew could recognize the markings & flags on the fast moving Israeli torpedo boats, hours of close Israeli reconnaissance must have enabled the Israeli to recognize that the the men they were murdering were Americans.




(1) "The Spy Ship Left Out in the Cold"
https://www.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2017-06/spy-ship-left-out-cold

 

Perhaps you should consider getting rid of any copies of the Stars and Stripes, and replacing it with the White and Blue banner with the Star of David?

Have you ever been under fire yourself? Likely not.

You quickly state the sailors under fire might have simply 'made mistakes', but for some reason you cannot imagine that the Israelis would make mistakes. In your book they appear to be above suspicion. Even though the Tel Aviv government is notorious for its lies and deceptions. Strange Days indeed, when US citizens denigrate the testimony of sailors while believing everything a criminal government says. Sad days.

 

Of course the Israelis can and do make mistakes. What do you think I believe the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty to be?

 

Once again Grau, you are making the mistake of assuming these "claims" are established facts. They are not.

 

Your powers of observation and judgment, your ability to perceive the truth, are highly questionable.

 

Why do you insult me for not believing some half assed conspiracy theories based on a couple of dozen sailors memories of an event 50 years ago?

 

LOLOLLOLOL

Says the nu-ca-e who lives on the 9/11 forums.