Russia will target US jets in parts of Syria, defence ministry says

That depends, in contemporary western society minority groups are practically the only ones allowed to express cultural identity, we can celebrate the achievements and singularity of Asians, Hispanics, Jews, Muslims, blacks, those of any distinct nationality like Italians, Irish, Polish, Japanese, but one cannot celebrate those of caucasians, whites or Anglos.

 

What ails Europe:

This is very true and it is interesting to see how the notion of national identity is tackled by the left as it promotes the opposite. All across the EU anyone promoting this national identity is branded some sort of proto-fascist, an ultra nationalist neo-nazi, but it is a lot more complicated than that. Europe is what gave us the "nation-state", this is a community of people which shared ethnicity in a given territory, those are the French, Spanish, Italians, Germans... Each nation shared government, history, law, religion, language, diet, costume, art... Their shared national identity was different from any other nation, there may be similarities, but the differences were noted, Germans drank beer, in France it was wine, the British played cricket, in Spain there was bullfighting... These differences were celebrated, each nation felt their cultural practices superior to any others, this had been since the creation of the nation-state.

The EU did away with all this.

 

Most America haters make no distinction between the two

One example is the libs who post here and are still bitter about what they think America did to iran 60 years ago and use it an excuse for iranian hostitilty toward America today

 

The 1953 coup was a significant issue and event in understanding one of the reasons the Shah lacked legitimacy and it also affected Iranian attitudes towards the US at the time of the revolution and in the early years following the revolution. It isn't all that germane in understanding subsequent US hostility towards Iran, or the the more recent US/Israeli/Wahhabi Arabia obsession with Iran, and the Iranian reaction to that hostility.

One can say that the Iranian government is hostile to American hegemony in the region. That it is hostile to Israel. And it is particularly hostile towards American policies aimed at waging economic, political, and geopolitical warfare against Iran and Iranian interests. But to say that Iran is more broadly hostile to America is to engage in spin, regardless of how many "death to America" chants you cite. The latter simply express the hostility towards the policies I allude to.

Of course, this hostility towards US policies notwithstanding, as any visitor to Iran can attest, the Iranian people (including those who vote and belong to the principalist camp) neither exhibit nor even feel any hostility towards the American people. Instead, they treat American and western visitors with a hospitality and with such warmth that most of them have never experienced anywhere else. Many Iranians believe the hostility between the two governments has become like the question which came first, the chicken or the egg, and are far more willing to see bygones be bygone than Americans.

 

They stole that gear from Iraq, not the US. They can't take anything from us. We don't give terrorists uniforms and keys to the tanks, and then later wonder where we went wrong, after they drive off in them and toss the uniform aside.

 

Spare me your ignorance of the conflict in Syria... a conflict which was going on for 3 years prior to ISIS going into Iraq. What do you think there were fighting with during those 3 years - pea shooters. It takes support from a nation state for people to fight a nation state for 3 years. A whole bunch of support.

But hey ... don't take my word for it. That we were supporting the extremist Islamist insurgents (which included Al Qaeda and those who went on to form the Islamic State - IS/ISIS) was stated by the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)

 

You mean the Bush administration intentionally created a false narrative, misrepresented the truth and lied their faces off in order to get us into a war. This war ended up costing the lives of roughly 5000 US soldiers and wounding tens of thousands.

Perhaps you might want to take a moment and ask yourself why exactly the Bush Admin went into Iraq.

Clue: It was not because of WMD or that Saddam was a bad guy - or that they believed their own lie that Saddam was in league with Al Qaeda and had something to do with 911.

 

That's just flat conspiracy theory dude. The US has never provided weapons directly to ISIS.

Also, ISIS didn't take the weapons from the Iraqis, for the most part. The Iraqis themselves defected to ISIS, and brought the gear with them.

 

It is laughable that you would accuse the DIA would put out "fake" intelligence documents - stating that the US military supported the extremist rebel insurgents in Syria - including Al Qaeda.

You are talking out your backside and have not spent any serious time looking into the issue. You are Trumpeting the Obama false narrative like it has some basis in fact. Even Biden contradicted Obama's "moderate rebel lie".

 

The rebels and ISIS are factually not the same people, and they regularly fight against each other. Propaganda has led you to believe that it's just Assad verus ISIS, when in reality there are too many factions on the battlefield to even count.

 

Why are you changing he topic and falsely accusing me of saying something I did not - I never claimed it was just Assad vs ISIS.

The US was "knowingly" supporting radical Islamist insurgents - including Al Qaeda. This is straight from our own DIA and your idea that this was some Conspiracy by the DIA is abject nonsense. Then there are a whole bunch of other sources from within our own Gov't (including a whole bunch in congress) saying the same thing.

Do you think that the many in congress saying that we were arming radical Islamist's and Al Qaeda are in on the conspiracy as well ?

It is you that is living in la la land.

 

Ok, I get it

Iran wants to be dominant in the Persian Gulf and will be the enemy of America as long as we are in the Gulf also and as long as they remember 1953

I have always understood that

it is the reason I say that our two countries will be at war some day.

Because we will never leave the Gulf region and never allow a muslim theoracy hostile to the non muslim west to control so much of the world's wealth in oil

 

That is the lying liberal spin on history

Bush was being told that iraq had wmd's and he acted on that information

Just for the record they probably did

But the war that has existed since the US invasion of iraq was accomplished nothing since the wmd's are now in syria being used by assad.

i

 

I don't think so Archil... I can even tell when you moved to the US... Don't push...

 

1) you are conflating the issue by using the term WMD. Saddam did not have nuclear weapons or the means to deliver them. There was no intelligence telling Bush that Saddam had created a nuclear weapon never mind having a missile that would carry that nuke to the US.

2) There was some bad intelligence "aluminum tubes", "Niger Yellowcake" - that pointed to the possibility that Saddam was "actively" working on a nuke. There was also "good intelligence" that refuted the bad intelligence. Bush selectively ignored the "good intelligence".

Our own DOE and the IAEA had stated that the tubes were likely for rockets and were not suited for uranium enrichment.
The "Niger Yellowcake" was a nonsensical fraud that was so badly done that a teenager could do better and not worth further mention on this basis.

3) The Bush administration claimed that there was an imminent threat to the security of the US homeland "in the form of a Mushroom cloud" - do imminent that we had to go to war.

This was a falsehood a misrepresentation and committed the sin of omission. This was "intentional" misleading of the US public.

This are the findings of the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee.

And this was being nice. The only spin here is that folks in the administration like Cheney should not be in Jail.

 

Oh, what ship was it? Flight #?

 

I used the term wmd because I know iraq did not have nuclear weapons

Nor did bush say they did but rather than saddam was trying to aquire them either by purchasing or developing his own

 

The Bush admin implied that Saddam had WMD and that he had an active program to produce nukes and other WMD. He made the case that this risk was so great that it represented an imminent threat to the security of the homeland "that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud"

Further - the admin made other implications about Saddam being linked to 911 = he is acting against the homeland = justification for war. This was a complete and patent falsehood. A false narrative that was intentionally left to fester.

What part of "you were intentionally lied to" do you not get ? Do you deny the findings of the Senate Intelligence Committee ?

 

"WMD" is a broader term than just nuclear weapons, it would include chemical and biological weapons.

There was evidence Saddam had chemical and biological weapons. It was documented such weapons had been used by Saddam before (against Kurds and Iran).

Though it is claimed the US completely destroyed all of Saddams chemical and biological weapons in the intervention to liberate Kuwait, this would be very difficult to verify.

 

Saddam's chemical weapons arsenal were destroyed by Iraq pursuant to the resolutions that followed Desert Storm and not by the US as a result of the "intervention" to liberate Kuwait. The purpose of the weapons inspectors was to verify that he had complied with the ceasefire resolutions requiring that he destroy his weapons.

While Saddam got what he deserved, and I am the last person to carry brief for a dictator who used chemical weapons against Iranian troops and civilians and who was serving as a proxy for Iran's enemies during the Iran-Iraq war, and who proudly showed a plaque on his desk reading "Three Whom God Should Not Have Created: Persians, Jews, and Flies", anyone who had a real clue or who wasn't fixated on invading Iraq would have realized that Iraq had no (or at least virtually no) chemical weapons after all the inspections which at one point seriously proposed searching his palace and under his bed!

 

Bush never misled me to believe that saddan had nuclear weapons

But he did oversell the immediate threat of saddam

Bush (and others including me) underestimated the difficulty of regime change and nation building

We changed the regime but found out thst iraq was one big lunaic asylum that only saddam could control

Or st leadt bush couldnt do it

But it was based on a screwup not a damn lie as the left chooses to believe

 

The Bush admin misled the public .. period .. and they did so intentionally = Lied their faces off. ... and yes they did mislead the public into believing that there was a nuclear threat from Saddam .. an imminent that which justified war.

He also lied is face off about Saddam being involved in 911.

Why was Bush involved in illegal regime change to begin with .... a complete violation of international law ?

This is absurd. Are you seriously suggesting that no one in the Bush administration or the intelligence community was aware of the century old blood feud between Sunni and Shia ?

What are you talking about ? This is not about left or right. Anyone with half a brain .. left or right .. knows that the Bush administration lied its face off. There are not even that many on the right who still try and cover up this fact.

What part of the "bipartisan senate intelligence committee" findings did you not understand ? ... and the committee sugar coated things. The establishment takes care of its own.

Your whole "bad intelligence apology" is just that ... an apology and one with no merit that has been dissected and refuted six ways to Sunday.

This is from the "apologists" ... the sugar coated water down version as much as was possible under the circumstances.

Presenting "intelligence" as "FACT" when you know it is unsubstantiated or contradicted is intentional deception = LYING through one's teeth.

Presenting intelligence as "FACT" when that intelligence is "NON EXISTENT" is LYING. This is making stuff up and presenting it as "FACT".

Seriously dude. I can't stand the Dem Establishment and rail against Obama on a regular basis. I don't like Trump much either but sure as hell did not want Crooked Hillary at the helm.

You are suffering from a serious case of partisan blindness and denial.

What part of "Saudi Arabia" is the biggest State Sponsor of Terror do you not understand.

Taliban, Al Qaeda/Al Nusra, Islamic Front, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabaab and numerous other groups around the world "ALL" share the same Saudi Inspired Sunni/Salafi extremist Islamist ideology.

Saudi Arabia has been promoting this ideology all over the world for decades and supporting groups that adopt it.
It is Saudi Arabia that teaches their children to hate Christians and Jews as part of the curriculum.

All but something like two of the 911 attackers were .... you guessed it ... Saudi (none were Iraqi).

Iraq was one of the few "Secular" Muslim nations in the middle east. Bin Ladin/Al Qaeda "HATES" secularism. An "Islamist" by definition hates secularism ... wants an extremist version of strict sharia theocracy - Like in Saudi Arabia and the other Sunni Gulf nations under its Caliphate. They stone adulterers and keep women as slaves. They crucify teenagers (after chopping off their heads) for protesting. There is no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion and serious lack of individual rights and freedoms in general.

This is what Al Qaeda wants. The Western Infidel is one thing but, a "Secular - no sharia/theocracy" in a Muslim nation is a cancer from within. Bin Laden and Saddam were "Blood Enemies" because Iraq was a bastion of "Secularism".

Bin Laden could not have dreamed of a better result. A few terrorists few planes into a few buildings and brought the most powerful nation on the planet to its knees. This one act compelled the citizens of this nation to their knees begging to give up the principles on which this nation was founded "Respect for individual rights and freedoms/liberty".

Bush made it our "Patriotic Duty" to give up individual liberty "Patriot Act". Obama then changed the name to the equally Orwellian doublespeak "Freedom Act".

Task complete for Bin Laden ... bring the US down to his level by making them give up respect for individual rights and freedoms.

Task Two - rid the Muslim world of "Secularism". Iraq was attacked... Bin Laden in his best wet dream would not have thought this possible by his one act of terrorism

ahhh but there was one other major "Secular" nation left in the ME. Guess which one that is ?

Did you guess it ? Syria ... a bastion of the dreaded secularism. Freedom of Religion, no Strict Sharia, no Theocracy, Christian Churches, integration - Assad has Christian generals in his army, respect for individual liberties - women can be educated without a mans permission and drive cars, there is drinking alcohol and God forbid -dancing and music in bars, women wear skirts and proper bathing suits... no stoning adulterers or killing people for being gay, no death penalty for aposatasy (leaving the Muslim faith) and so on.

Bin Laden's elation - would he still be alive- would be so euphoric he would have died.

But wait !!! there's more. Al Qaeda and the Al Qaeda offshoot - ISIS is no longer the enemy of the US. We have come full circle. Not only are they not our enemy, the US is now arming and supporting Al Qaeda, ISIS and other Islamist's in their fight against "individual rights and freedoms".

Do you not see something really friggen wrong with this picture ? Can you imagine prior to 911 someone telling you that some terrorist group that hates the principles on which the US was founded - individual liberty - was going to blow up the twin towers and that 10 years later the US would be arming this group and attacking its enemies and adopting it's principles ?

Time to wake up and smell the flatus.

 

Ok

I think I can reduce your thousand word rant to a more digestable size

You dont like the decision to overthrow saddam and you will remain hyper pissed about it "for as long as the sun shines and the grass grows"

i agree it was a mistake

But bush led us into it with our eyes wide open

 

Everyone with a van or a boat has the ability to deliver a nuke.

 

Former Ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, had it exactly correct today, I believe.

He noted that we really do not desire a war with Russia.

Yet we should make it clear to the Russians that we will fly our aircraft wherever we want, and whenever we want.

And truly mean it.