Well maybe what you say is true, that you live on the continent & we live on an Island. But why you think that your opinion is a better choice just smacks of European fascism to me. Your statement of you prefering Britain within the "EU and in the driving seat" is laughable & completely unrealistic. If it were the case then there would be no drive to a Feberal Union, no Euro currency & no EU for that mater. We liked the idea of a free trade EEC and nothing else. And why should we want anything else? Free trace is fine between member states. But why you think we have to become some European monolith to challange the US is a joke. The US will collapse all by themselves without any help from some ineffective EU bureaucrats in sometimes a Brussels Parliment & sometimes in a duplicate Strasburg Parliment. What a waste of time & money they are. Other than to try & force some kind of Social democrat o all member states. Once the Maastricht sell-out was signed & member states lost their right to veto agreements was imposed on individual soverign states was implemented the European deal was no longer one I or most of the British electorate could stomache. But of course we could argue the point for a long time. So all I would ask is that the British electorate be given an IN / OUT referendum on EU membership. Then I would be happy to accept the majority decision. And I very musch suspect that Britian would leave. And what would be wrong with accepting the soverign will of the people?
I didn't know that Britain pays into the EU more, than what British companies make out of the European market. I thought if that were true Britain would have never joined. I really thought that the EU laws benefit companies like Vodafone for example, which might be otherwise be restricted to only the UK's market. And I thought if that were the case now most countries would want to secede from the EU. First and foremost Germany who pays most into it. But maybe you have different information than I do. Superpower in your mind might mean only geopolitics. I wasn't really referring to that, but rather economically. I think that the US is only a Superpower because there is 300 million of them. The EU has 500 million inhabitants so I figured if we worked together instead of against each other, we might progress faster and be more competitive. It is hard for any British company to compete with American companies. They control to vast of a piece of the market. Or maybe I am misinformed. Maybe some British companies can compete world wide with McDonald's, Coca Cola and Walmart. Personally, I really don't think countries under 100 million people will matter in the decades to come and that the EU is the only way we can protect our markets and remain competitive with global brands such as these. We had two large banks here in Austria, and when we joined the EU they merged to be more competitive. They got bought by the third largest bank in Bavaria, which got bought by an Italian bank. The regional companies we have cannot compete with companies who are established in the US. Maybe in a hand full of businesses the UK (i.e. banks) can still compete by itself. The added 430 million market can make British companies like Vodafone compete world wide. It is really annoying to see this opportunity being wasted.
I wasn't saying that I don't approve of what the people choose, I said just what I'd prefer. I think that people who don't leave their homes, cannot see the benefits of the EU. If you leave the UK only on isolated occasions when you go on vacation or something, you clearly don't see the benefits of the EU. If you're running a company you do. My dad ran his business in 4 countries, which my brother now continues. My sister works as an architect in two, and she's trying to get into the third. I worked in 3 so far in my profession. Therefore it depends what you do. I can understand that people who live in London and who go to France on vacation don't see the benefits.
We pay about 14bn euros per annum. The government wouldn't get that back let alone a profit. We joined in 1973 when things were different and the EU wasn't what it is now. That wouldn't be the case as the EU as well as the whole world is open to foreign trade. The only negative aspect of trading with the EU without being a member of it is that we'd have to pay tariffs which are acceptable. I don't know enough about the German attitude towards the EU in order to make a proper comment. I'm merely commenting on my British perspective which is bound to be different from someone else's in a different country. The fact is that people do things differently which is something that we have to respect which is something I don't think the EU does. I think that they have a bit more than that economically speaking. However I don't think that they are as important a country as they believe themselves to be. Not necessarily as it does depend on which particular industries that are competing. We do it's just not in the way that is in the public's awareness. Economics isn't really a science so it's difficult to tell how the world will change in the next decade or so. I think recently there was a so called stress test of Europe's banks without a single British bank failing. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29777589 I don't think that American banks are or can compete with European banks in Europe anyway. We would be able to compete worldwide without the EU and on our own. In fact that's what we are very good at doing even our history paints us as a great trading nation.
My friend, it appears to me you are not aware of the "unwritten" constitution of the UK. The reason it is not "written" is because it stretches to numerous pages and volumes of Acts, precedents, agreements and texts. The last Labour government tried, and failed. Unlike your usual conspiracy theory, it is incredibly difficult to unravel a blank page signed by a monarch, applicable to territories, colonies, UNION, jurisdictions etc. and make it relevant to a unitary state. So the gentle answer to your statement is..... not true. A constitutional referendum in the UK can be repeated once a period of seven years has passed.
Scots, I believe will not allow ourselves to be ignored, just because we voted NO. We could end up like WA who voted Yes to independence and the result was STILL ignored..... google "Westminster Act". I'l get back to the "whew"... I am really up for a genuine benefits/drawbacks discussion, but I've NOT YET SEEN ONNE TO BE HAD. Always the premise is what Scotland would loose.... "a seat as a permanent member on the UN Security council"?..... You see where I'm going don"t you.... all bollox. We have absolutely nothing to loose from the rejection of union, and everything to gain. Whew! Now we've secured a NO, we can bomb Iraq again.... and despite the parliamentary NO vote for war in Syria..... we reserve the right to bomb them too.
Mate, it's happening within a "metaphorical" 15 minutes. Labour is in self denying destruct mode. Totally appropriate somehow... 2 options.... FFA: Independence. The consolation prise, not a lot more....... are you up for a bag of popcorn watching the Westminster results tumble in? - - - Updated - - - Scottish independence..... touche!
Let's get up-to-date... http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/camerons-arrogant-and-anti-democratic.html What is there not to get with? Your polling source is what?
And again, the referendum result, was pretty close to the polling. Show me where your contention is correct.
No they weren't because there were multiple polls which varied with one claiming to be in the mid 50's for the yes vote. This wasn't close to the result.
Great, link me to a specific one then, one which supports your claim. It's not difficult if you are right. I know I may be new to this forum, but I am not new to your type.... and there are categories to which you lean to. Devil, as always is in the detail. You have none. However, if there is a fairytale result, we can analise this together.....? NB. No destruction of my previous link. Weird.... Is there a relevance to post count here? Just asking?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014 Observe the variation. And try asking rather than demanding. And what exactly is that? I should also point out that I don't like being profiled. You mean analyse? If you keep making assumptions about people and their view then don't be surprised if they become hostile. MOD EDIT - Rule 3 Because it's relevant to the point. What do you mean?
If you are confused,maybe that is because you did not read the post to which I was repying. Read post #17 on page 2 of this thread & possibly you may not be so confused.
What for? The referendum went the way most Scots wanted it to go. There should be no more Scottish referendum. It was only two months ago since the last one. If the Scots aren't happy with the way THEY voted then they've only got themselves to blame. No more money and time should be wasted for another long drawn out campaign which will see, day in and day out, people with those boring, gloomy Scottish accents shouting at each other loudly and incoherently on almost every TV channel well into the night before, in the end, they all vote for the status quo again. Moves should now be underway to implement Jack Straw's suggestion that laws should be brought in to make it illegal for Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland to leave the United Kingdom. Also, Scotland should be put on the backburner (people in England, Wales and NI are fed up with hearing about nothing but bloody "me me me me" Scotland on the news all day long every day) and the Government should start looking at more devolution for England and the banning of Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs from voting on English-only issues. England and, to a lesser extent, Wales and NI should start taking priority now. The Scots have had their vote and they should now live with it.
Things can change a lot in five years. Another poll conducted a year from now could show 80% of Scots happy with the way things are and not wanting another referendum. Isn't it about time you Scots Nats just admit you lost?
