Should America Atomic Bomb China?

Huh, you seem to have missed this part of my post, although you quoted my post: "Sure, maybe they are cooking the numbers, that's possible" so what makes you think that I am ignoring this possibility, so that you sort of sarcastically say that you suppose a few people are taking it at face value as if I were one of them, when the very post you've quoted states in all letters that I take it with a grain of salt???

 

What did I say, that it would be useless to post a link? QED

 

~ That is very debatable.

~ That would be China.

 

Thank you for the link! I will read it with interest, and even though my degree isn't in microbiology or any related discipline, I'll try to be fair in poring through it.

 

There won't be a war, but there may be "wailing and gnashing of teeth" in China -- especially if those 'teeth' don't have any FOOD in-between them!

There is a way for us to force China to own up to what it allowed to be let loose on the rest of the world -- by refusing to sell China any more food until they admit their own carelessness and stupidity -- AND -- pay for at least some of the catastrophic damage they have caused to the rest of the world! But a nuclear war with an adversary as powerful as China is today would not serve any beneficial end....

 

I read the article you posted the link to, and, with respect, I saw opinions, but nothing that was by any means 'conclusive'. I also read this article, too, but although it was interesting and actually more emphatic about the virus just sort of spontaneously popping out of nowhere, it wasn't conclusive. Link: https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-lab-manmade-myth-debunked-2020-6?op=1

I offer it to you because through the years I have trusted what I read in businessinsider.com .

What keeps on coming back to me is that for the last couple of decades, we get one big mysterious virus outbreak after another from CHINA. Not Russia, not North Korea, not Iran, but CHINA! Is there indeed something so very weird about wild animals in CHINA that they have an almost unique ability to develop these viruses among themselves, but only very rarely anywhere else in the world...?

And the trend continues through this very day in which the United States has BY FAR more COVID cases than any other country on Earth. By contrast, China is now down to number #35.... They must be lucky, indeed, considering how many infected pangolins and bats they must have all over the place....

 

~ I think many people have not yet learned about the Chinese scientist known as "Bat Lady" working at the Wuhan laboratory .

 

Thanks. I too generally like businessinsider.com - do know that they have a definite left wing inclination, but this doesn't bother me. I do think they generally do a good job.

Look, when you asked for a link, I grabbed one. I've read others but it's hard to retain them all in this evolving environment. Earlier I read a detailed account of the genomic sequencing showing why it's not man-made. I read scientists from Oxford University saying it's 100% guaranteed that it is not man-made and not tampered with for gain of function. I read an American virologist who worked in the Wuhan Virology level 4 lab and laughed out loud at the suggestion that the virus came from there, and explained why the conspiracy theory was outrageous and easy to debunk. When you asked for a link I was unable to locate it all again, and I sent you the one I did locate. As for not conclusive, your link does seem to be quite conclusive, they say "But by using the virus' genetic sequence scientists have been able to debunk this myth once and for all." Well, there isn't much that is more conclusive than "once and for all."

Anyway, I can see how one can think that all these viruses coming from China is suspicious... but it's just the way it is. It's just a feature of the ecosystem, population size, proximity with the fauna, and the sequence of seasons. The seasonal flu ALWAYS starts in China, and that's how we get the prevalent strains to anticipate what strains to use in our flu shots, once the virus comes here. It doesn't mean that every year, evil Chinese virologists secretly manufacture influenza viruses just to annoy humankind. These are natural occurrences, but yes, culture plays a role. These people think that a monkey's brain is a delicacy. They have 1.4 billion people all crowded together. No wonder viruses jump from animals to people more easily in China than elsewhere.

No, they are not lucky. They routinely get in trouble with these viruses jumping species. I'm sure if they could stop having these events, they'd be delighted. So, we can be sure that in the future other viruses will jump species there, and they are the first ones to suffer from it. But how did they get this one under control (provided that we can trust their numbers which I do not; I'm quite sure the total number of cases and deaths there is higher than what they acknowledge - but in any case it shouldn't be by an order of magnitude so even though I don't specifically trust their exact numbers, I do believe that in general they got the virus under control; we know this, by the very human activity that has resumed in Wuhan) it's in function of their political system. They are an authoritarian country. They have a harsh government with little - if any - respect for individual rights. There aren't too many Chinese who dare to disobey governmental orders (or else...). So they were able to clamp down on this very strongly, cordoning out entire cities. If they say, "wear masks," 100% of the people do; not to forget, they did gobble all the PPE for themselves and equipped everybody with decent quality masks.

 

Well, they seem to be smarter than we are. Average IQ in China, 105. In the United States, 98. They have a 3,000-year civilization over there. 4th higher average IQ in the world only behind Singapore, South Korea, and Japan, and their enclave Hong Kong is tied with Singapore as #1.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
These people play the long game. Yes, I do think they are cunning and smart.

Agreed. I'm terrified of them. They are our biggest geopolitical enemy at this point and we're losing leverage with them as they are diversifying their trade and depending less and less on selling goodies to us. The moment they no longer need us, beware.They will then seek to destabilize the dollar as the international reserve currency.

 

~ If the Chinese were so intelligent they would not be stealing intellectual property from other countries; the products they produce would not be of such poor quality - often counterfeit ; they would educate their own students instead of sending them to U.S. universities ; the homes and construction in China would not be so weak and poor quality that they are called "Tofu Homes" ; The Three Gorges Dam would not be in peril of collapse due to faulty engineered design & construction ; the government would have no need to dominate their citizens through intimidation, fear and communism. The Chinese Communist Party took away the Chinese people's original culture , traditions and freedom. It is an evil regime on par with the Nazi Party of Germany - but not as intelligent. Hopefully they are operating on borrowed time.
I think we should look at China as a whole - not their average individual IQ score.

 

Well, agreed. I'm no fan of China's. Like I've always said since I started posting here, they are our #1 geopolitical enemy, in my opinion. Forget Russia, the Chinese are much worse (I mean, the government; I don't exclude that individual Chinese may be nice, but more on this, soon). I don't think the issues you are pointing to have to do with IQ, though. Stealing intellectual property, engaging in criminal counterfeiting, are not the hallmarks of being dumb; they are the hallmarks of being dishonest. Most likely the poor engineering has more to do with corruption and deliberate use of poor materials to cheat and defraud. And being an evil regime doesn't have anything to do with being dumb, either. I share with you the bad opinion of China in ALL items you are mentioning, and I praise President Trump for standing up to them, or at least trying. Now, on the matter of individual IQ I do believe in this 105 average. The Chinese I know in academia as colleagues and as students of mine are incredibly intelligent. Sure, they come here because our universities are better due to a number of factors, but they are catching up fast, and their manufacturing is increasing in quality every week.

The culture is such that it fosters dishonesty. I recently had a Chinese student - not Chinese-American, but really Chinese, one of those who came from there to learn here and then return there - by the way, a stunningly beautiful woman. We were discussing an issue, and she proposed a way to go about it (a clever way but unethical and dishonest) and I said, "No, we can't do it like this; this would be cheating" and she replied "So what? Cheating is good. One needs to get ahead in life and there is nothing that advances one's life faster than cheating." No kidding. That's what she said. My jaw dropped. I mean, she wasn't even afraid of saying so to a professor... knowing that I had to grade her, but she was so convinced that it was the right way to approach the issue, that she stood behind what she was saying, this way.

Incredible. I've never been to China. My son has, and he came back appalled, stating that in his interactions with the Chinese, he was surprised at how naturally they cheated and thought that it was perfectly OK to do so. He also found that many of them were incredibly selfish and callous.

 

Absolutely fascinating post! And I would add the observation that the "Han Chinese" view themselves almost as a totally different and superior kind of human being, perhaps because through most of their 5,000+ year history, they were so isolated -- and liked it that way!

They are the ultimate pragmatists -- as you said, "anything to get ahead"! The Chinese relish competition and have promoted institutionalized scholastic hierarchies to an unprecedented level for many centuries with their Confucian Education system!

They are supremely acquisitive, better-organized than any other people on Earth, and operate with an efficiency that makes every other country look lax and slovenly by comparison. They don't tolerate nonconformity, and they callously reject those they consider to deviate from the Chinese "norm", and those they believe are inferior.

One wonders, then, what the Chinese approach to "race relations" would be if they ruled the world -- because in the next fifty years, they might just do that....

 

~ China is doomed ...

 

China is the world power of tomorrow.

And always will be....

 

~ Not the world power of today.

 

Thanks. Agreed. I always said to those who complain that we Americans are imperialistic and all, "just wait for the Chinese to rule the world, at which point you will remember with nostalgia the good old times when the Americans were on top." I think that once they finish their supremacy project, they will be ruthless. Anybody who is not part of Mother China will be seen by them as inferior servants. And they are a lot of people... I remember an old Argentinan cartoon, Mafalda, featuring a young and philosophical girl... she used to fear the Chinese, and once said "I'm terrified of the moment when all the Chinese will decide to stomp the ground together. We'll have a destructive earthquake." All metaphorical; Mafalda was written and drawn by a genius, the cartoon strips were funny and thought-provoking... Decades ago he already knew about the threat to the non-Chinese humankind that one day they would represent.

 

How so? You know, they have survived for millennia; they are a lot more resilient than you might be thinking. They will go through some economic crises, pollution issues, social unrest... but I predict that they will continue to expand. They have their sights on Africa, apparently (I read that in a report from a think tank that specializes in understanding long-term Chinese strategy; I don't have the link on me now; it was several months ago that I read it).

 

~ Of course I am referring to the Chinese Communist Party - not the country itself. Does Germany still wish to "rule the world" as the Nazi Party is no longer ? Is Germany still a country ? Is it better , or worse without Adolf Hitler ?
There is turmoil and confusion within the CCP. The Wuhan virus pulled the curtain back on the evil regime and now many nations are pulling away from China. I think it is unlikely the government can survive much longer. Trump pushing the U.S. to stand against China for the first time was very unexpected and tossed the CCP into a unstable posture. The Yuan is almost worthless. Some speculate China is not worth even half of what they claim. The Chinese people are beginning to speak against the government in large numbers for the first time. More citizens are defecting. Hong Kong is no longer a shelter for China to escape sanctions. Even Mother Nature seems to have cursed the CCP.
There is always hope for Chinese communism to continue and spread throughout the world. Elect Democrats into office and the USA will once again be in alliance with China. That alone will likely be enough to keep the CCP in power .

 

Oh great idea! And just how many American cities are you willing to sacrifice? They ARE a nuclear power, remember? They've accurately delivered rovers to the Moon, so it's not a stretch to imagine they could accurately deliver a few nukes HERE! I'll pass, thank you.

 

I certainly do hope for the CCP to come down crashing. That is indeed a reason to vote for Trump in November.

 

I have something better in mind........ but it is kind of complicated and kind of risky...... and will be very expensive.



Artistic Hollywood style "Armageddon" could bring world out of recession?!

 

~ The way things are going for China it appears an atomic bomb will not be necessary. China's own "virus bomb" made the peaceful countries take notice of the sinister Chinese Communist government and many have already pulled back.
If Trump is reelected there is a good chance the CCP will collapse. With a Democrat administration we can likely be assured the communist party will come to the USA with the title "hope & change".

 

You do not understand MAD which says that ANY use of nukes will necessarily and unavoidably cause all the rest to use theirs. If we bomb China the major message this will send to Russia is "you're next," and the only response Russia has to that is to launch all they have and trust to their enormous size and huge CD program which has never been canceled since it started in the 1950's (the food under bridges and in basements is undoubtedly rather stale but it is still there)

China's destruction would also give this same message to everyone else, even our allies. The rest of the world's nuke would be launched at us very quickly

Also, who says China has no rockets and does Israel's Iron Dome protect the whole US?

This is possibly the most insane proposal I have yet heard by anyone on this board or off

 

Actually, that is NOT what MAD dictates.

 

Why wouldn't nations with nukes think that way?