Should hospitals be allowed to turn away non payers/no insurace or liars at ER rooms?

I have to admit that I haven't yet used the US medical system. On the other side of the pond my friends who're doctors (or studying to become doctors) usually want to help people. They don't get payed poorly even in this very socialist country, and they seem ok with it. The reason doctors in America don't want to treat you is because they don't get paid if you're not properly insured.
In our socialized universal heath care system in Austria, doctors don't handle money on everyday bases. A patient comes and gets treated and goes home. The doctor gets the same paycheck ever time. They get only more if their patients are healthy. So if most of their patients don't smoke, or they help one of their patient to stop smoking the state will give them a bonus. But they earn very well over here.
I thought Obama-care was the first move in that direction...

That's just crazy isn't it?! I mean WTF?! Security and health care shouldn't be a part of the "profit motive". People pay taxes - loads of taxes. Why should I have to worry about money if I'm desperately in the need of help, especially if I've payed that much in taxes... It just makes no sense. If the state can provide money for police, military, postal office, fire departments, colleges, schools and God knows what else, why not health care? I mean who would want to stay in a hospital just for fun?!

 

Yes, but the lawyers are paid by the government. The lawyers are not being forced to do work without getting paid, and if they do not want to do this work, they do not have to, they can try to find work somewhere else.

This type of law, found in several states, forces emergency rooms to treat patients who cannot pay. Emergency physicians are forced to see these patients - they do not really have any other option. If they refuse to treat these people, the hospital will get shut down.

Imagine if you owned a grocery store and you had to give free food to every hungry family that walked into your store that couldn't afford food. If you didn't, the government would shut your business down. This is the situation many hospitals face, and a number of hospitals (even non-profit ones) have actually been forced to close down because they could not remain profitable.

 

Even if Hospitals and/or physicians were allowed to turn away patients unable to pay for their treatments, I believe that 99% of the time they would not when it was a life or death or a possible life or death situation. Why, because Doctors are not "wired" that way. They are trained to save and improve life and will do anyhthing possible to do so; and, those same doctors and surgeons on call or on staff at various hospitals and surgical clinics, make those facilities money and therefore, the facilities will bend over backwards to accomodate the doctors and surgeons and their patients and lastly, no emergency is going to turn an injured or say a heart attack patient away for if no other reason than they would likely be sued and lose if the patient subsequently died.
After 35 years in Health administration and married to a surgeon in private practice for 32 years; I and he would never agree with Legislation that allowed those presenting with a life or death situation to be turned away and not provided treatment when that treatment was available.

Also, the Hospitals I have worked at and that my husband is on staff at have allowed him to operate on his patients who had no means of payment or insurance for 'Free" and he provided their treatment at no cost.

This is why I was furious when Obama stated early in his Presidency and while on one of his numerous tours across the Country for the purpose of bashing Republicans, doctors and promoting Obamacare(prior to its passage). He actually incinuated that doctors/surgeons instead of providing the best treatment for their patients instead based the treatment they provided on "how much they could charge". I actually started crying when I heard him say that and that is simply not the truth. While there are probably a low percentage of doctors and surgeons that would do such a thing, it is not the norm and it is likely there is also a small percentage of Lawyers , accountants and other professionals that rip-off their clients.

 

And as far as the question of turning away liars; I fail to see how a person presenting to the Emergency Room would be found to be a liar before they receive treatment by emergency room staff. If they provide false information regarding insurance coverage they can be sued.
And, I know of no hospital or doctor that refuses to work out a payment agreement that accomodates a persons ability to pay monthly based on their documented income.What is more prevalent is individuals that are able to pay simply deciding not to or failing to contact the provider to set up payments.

Those individuals are not tolerated and would not be tolerated by any business providing them goods or services on credit.

 

If you think the hospital is ever going to get the money, you are completely clueless how things actually are. These are not middle class people we are talking about. Half the time they are already collecting welfare on the one hand, and working at a minimum wage job using false paperwork on the other.

 

I work in an emergency room in one of the largest cities in Florida. No, there is no reason an ER should deny care to anyone. Regardless of what you think about costs there is an important health and safety element to consider. What would happen if every facility turned a person with symptomatic tuberculosis away because they couldn't pay their bill? That puts the community in danger. What about a psychologically unstable patient that is a danger to him/herself or others? We can't have people bleeding all over the streets. We can't have diseases running rampant in our community.

 

Only if they're here illegally.

 

See my comment below. I health concern of your neighbor's is inherently a health concern of yours.

Edit: To include quote.

 

I agree private hospitals should be able to turn away folks, but if they do, they should lose all business from 911 calls and all gov funds

 

But again, like I have said, in a small but growing number of cases, these government funds just are just not worth it for some hospitals surrounded by poverty.
And these "government funds" you talk of - this includes Medicare. Imagine being old and not being able to use your Medicare at a hospital because the government won't reimburse the hospital. This is the same Medicare that you have been forced to pay your hard-earned tax dollars into over the years.

 

Better solution

Enact single-payer care

Quit pretending that there's anything inherently wrong with 'slavery'.

Done deal.

It's not 'slavery' by any means, because no one is forced to voluntarily work as a doctor in a hospital - that would be like joining the military voluntarily, then crying "slavery" when they actually deploy you.

Plus if single payer were enacted, this would eliminate the necessity of private hospitals to perform services free of charge as well, so the faux-slavery aspect would be eliminated.

 

Not to mention that the guys here saying that they they'd approve of the idea, would never really buy into it when push came to shove - if they lost their job and their insurance, and they or their wife or child was gravely ill and needed ER, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that they'd voluntarily agree to just sit and die due to inability to pay, and not wanting others to pay for they or their loved ones' care.

That's why they should support single-payer care - it'd keep the govt from forcing private healthcare providers to provide care on their dime - universal single-payer care would run independently, and private providers could allow/deny treatment at their own discretion - not to mention they wouldn't be footing the bills for those who can't/don't pay for private care - which is what the vast majority of the cost of medical bills actually is. They're paying far more money toward other people's medical care every time they pay their own bills than they ever would with single payer care, and don't even know it.

 

People poor enough to be collecting welfare are probably on Medicaid. In theory, they shouldn't be showing up in the emergency room unless it's an actual emergency. But in any case they should be covered.

 

Would people with TB come to the emergency room? It seems like that's an issue for the public health departments. They will treat TB patients for free.

 

Not necessarily Florida won't provide benefits based on income you must meet disability guidelines and be very low income or a pregnant woman or child or elderly in the right programs. Generally a difficult level to qualify for if single.

 

Still, over 3 million people in Florida are on Medicaid, so it's not that restrictive, although I don't know if that number includes the Medically Needy Program.

 

Private hospitals are a business. They cannot survive if they cannot pay the bills. You simply cannot ask them to treat ANY injury regardless of the ability to pay. That said, they have an obligation as civilized human beings to treat anybody who's life may be in danger if they do not receive medical assistance. But the decision should always come from the doctors, not the accountants. It's economic triage -- you can't help everybody, but if you can, you should.

 

If your on SSI your automatically enrolled and if you meet the same tests by in-state evaluation which is usually harder due to the way you can appeal. Pregnant women and children are counted. So its that sort of thing income is part of it but not a factor itself you could earn $5000 a year and not get on it even with pre-existing conditions.

 

Nearly two million of that three million are children. I'm glad to see you advocating ending Medicare services for them over political idealism.

 

As usual lil Mike runs off...

 

That is almost exactly how it works now. Only hospitals that accept medicare are required to stabilize every patient that darkens the door of their emergency room. Hospitals that don't accept medicare may turn away anyone they choose.

 

I like to think that in a so called Christian Country, that most Americans would place humanity above money. I am 100% against illegals in the U.S. but to deny them emergency services would be barbaric.

And there are 40 million + under or uninsured in the U.S. So should we just let them suffer because of lack of insurance? No says I.

 

So what about people who start a new job where they have to work there for 3 months before they are eligible for company benefits? What if something happens to them before they are covered? What about people working part time and have no coverage? What if it is someone that you love who is turned away from an ER and dies because of it?

What about the Hippocratic Oath?

 

Why don't you apply the same concept to grocery stores? Why should anyone not be allowed to get food from a grocery store just because they don't have any money at the time? People need food to survive. Maybe we should force grocery stores to give people whatever food they want, whether or not they are able to pay.

Forcing hospitals to provide free emergency care to anyone who comes in is no different than forcing grocery stores and restaurants to provide free food for anyone who comes in, or forcing hotels to provide free rooms to anyone who comes in. Food and shelter are required for survival as well - why not force businesses to provide them just like we force businesses to provide free healthcare?

 

How many people are starving to death in Illinois? Food stores, restaurants, hotels and Healthcare are different arguments. I reject your whole slippery slope argument. There is subsidized housing and free shelters... there are food banks and kitchens... and there are tax write offs to hospitals for providing care to the indigent. Perhaps it will take you or someone that you love being denied emergency care to change your view.