Show me how gun bans work to make things better.

Considering there has not yet been a "gun ban" here, I find it hard to show you 'evidence' that it will make things better. However, gun violence has increased so obviously 'more guns' has not made anything better either. I may not have the 'evidence' you demand, but i certainly have statistics showing you why guns thus far have NOT been the solution.

 

Let me ask you this, do firearms make things BETTER?

I have a few questions for you first -

What evidence are you looking for ? I guess you have a couple of scenarios here (1) Gun ban keeps good people away from guns (2) Gun ban policy keeps guns out of humans, period. Which one are you talking about ?

 

First I will say that if "ALL" firearms could be removed from society it would be one thing. We know that will not happen in America.
For number one: do firearms make things BETTER? Any answer would be subjective as the answers are yes and no.

Two: What evidence are you looking for ? I want to know the effect on the real crime rate from actual proven studies here in the US that the removal (banning) of firearms has: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/4/chicago-murder-rate-far-worse-strict-gun-control/ does not help the case.

I think that covers one and two as well.

 

If a gun will keep an intruder out of my house, the gun wins hands down. Would you intrude into a house if you knew the people have or might have a gun?

For all the bad publicity guns are getting it doesn't out weigh the good the guns have done. I don't want guns banned. We have more responsible gun owners in this country than irresponsible.
A total ban gun might work for a few days. I am betting a saavy blacksmith would be turning out blackmarket guns in no time..

 

We should be like England where everyone is disarmed, their gun crime rates are lower than the United States.

While the government is busy banning guns, the criminals will be shooting innocent people but eventually they will be caught and put in jail.

What a gun ban does is create problems in the beginning, but will work for the long run.

 

I may not agree with or like your answer but at least it is a real answer.

 

Yes there are total gun bans in some cities and they are very dangerous in some places. More dangerous than before the ban.

Your evidence can not account for the lower overall crime rate in the US as compared to countries with bans nor will they try to. Also they can not account for the shrinking numbers published by the FBI as legal gun ownership has gone up.

 

Not even remotely close; and you know why? Because we never had a culture of insanely obsessive gun fetishism, we never had a culture of mass gun ownership and any shooting (fortunately few), was viewed universally with horror and distaste. Two very nasty massacres by lunatics armed with legally-held weapons were enough to tip the balance. We don't want, need or have any use for guns outside of sporting shotguns.
Yes, we still have problems with illegal firearms but, in comparison with the daily litany of gun deaths in America, they are vanishingly insignificant.

 

Secure your house properly, make it unattractive to intruders (security lights, audible intruder alarms, a noisy dog), and you won't need to worry.
Don't invite trouble.

 

Though this is great many criminals do not care as they know response times and/or they may be drugged up. Also there are some areas that you are not allowed to do this per city code/local convenance and renters have rules they must follow.

Still nobody has addressed the topic competently.

 

Australia has had zero mass shootings since their ban. Next inane thread?

 

And? How often had you had them? What is the demographic? How is your health system?...

Next pointless post!

 

In other words, America is very different than the UK and it is folly to attribute the difference in murder rates to your gun ban since the difference predates the ban and there are too many variables involved.

 

I am not sure where 'here' is. In the USA was have a nearly unbroken drop in both violent crime AND gun crime since abut 1990. The exact opposite has been the case in the UK and much of Europe. Do not confuse the media reporting crimes nationally that would only have been local news a decade ago with an actual increase in such crimes. The FBI stats simply do not support that idea. The greatest mass murder at a US school has not occured in the last 30 years but in the 1920's as a bombing.

 

Not true. Next false statement?

 

A criminal also has the same resources homeowners have. He has the time to study how to circumvent anything a homeowner puts up. A gun is more trustworthy. People can argue all they want, but we have more responsible gun owners than irresponsible gun owners.
I was raised up around guns and was taught early on about gun safety. I have a lot of respect for guns, enough that any gun is a loaded gun and the safety is off.

- - - Updated - - -

I will agree about the barking dog..it will give me time to get my gun..

 

You make a good point.

 

There have been and those cities account for well over 15% of the total US firearm homicide rate. We cant guard our borders (seems we can be everywhere else though) so what makes you think the criminals would ever de effected. This is not europe and we have a lower crime rate than many countries with bans.

And still nobody can competently address the OP

 

If I can show you that gun violence has been trending downward over the last 20 years then would you apply that same logic to say that 'more guns' have made things better?

 

Thanks for responding Archer, I really appreciate you taking the time to point out your opinions. You know what, I do agree with you that grabbing guns out of the hands of a few good people is simply daft. It's common sense that the wrong gun laws could do nothing more than reduce the number of good people who have guns and that introduces some variables we have yet to fully appreciate.

Though, the public guns arms race in American public is clearly no better, we are the most well armed per capita and the most likely to die by guns in the top 23 richest countries. I hate to rattle off stats but you asked for them - According to the CDC, some 35% of guns used by criminals were sold or given to them by friends and family. Another 10+ % are flat out stolen out of homes. This bodes really poorly for the notion that good gun owners make societies safer. Plus, a nice little fun fact for women out there, a gun in the home greatly increases their chances of dieing by guns. Seems odd but statistically it's a reality. It's like that friend who thinks he's got magic powers to drive home with a few drinks in his/her system. They can't guage that fully, the same as a gun owning person to some lesser degree.

What is never discussed is that guns elevate conflicts and bring them to a higher level of lethality. WHrg considers smallarms a pandemic, it has had a devistating reach into the 3rd world. Hence it is common sense to consider how to change laws to keep guns under control.

 

Having a swimming pool increases one's chances of drowning in a swimming pool. That isn't "odd" at all, it's common sense.

Who has a greater chance of falling down a flight of stairs and breaking their neck? A person living in a one story home or a person living in a multi-story home?

 

Though not what I wanted I am glad you brought that up. How people get their hands on weapons is a big issue. Sadly we know a few things:
Stopping the real criminal element will not be affected by any ban. Putting off a killing a day or two at most is the best that can be done. Crime rates will definitely go up (as has been evidenced by areas with stringent gun control and bans) in most urban and suburban areas quite a bit and rural areas will slowly devolve.

We definitely need to do something but a ban on weapons is not the answer because it is not possible. Tighter controls on things can help a bit. Not in the form of restrictions but in the form of competency training and testing. If you look at the actual numbers you will see a similarity between auto and gun death. Really - it amazed me. This nation is full of stupid people and criminals (drunk drivers).

 

I understand your point of view and you are quite right. The toothpaste is already out of the tube and banning guns is kind of like saying we "just" need to put the toothpaste back in somehow, which is nearly impossible. Though flipping your question over on it's head, you don't actually need hard stats to discern how banned gun societies have faired "better"; we need to look at the roots of homicides and crime in the US and decide how to reduce the common denominator (ie. sadly that is usually guns).

PS> I should point out that your assumption that pseudo gunless societies are automatically worse isn't necessarily true either. There isn't enough data to see that fully, and with such varying types of societies, I don't give a lot of credence for this kind of statistical comparison.

 

I know but ours is a rather unique society. Our melting put is the cesspool of humanity in many places. People don't stand accountable for their actions or their lives. They want a bailout for making their own decisions or a quick fix for being irresponsible. The politicians are a reflection of this. If we could go door to door and educate every person and take up the guns of those who have no legal right to them it would be one thing (I agree with it) but both the left and the right want to cry about that. It is a mess and no law is going to fix it. Restoring civility, wiping out greed and hate, providing mental health services... would fix it.

There is absolutely no reason that every person can not have thousands of firearms in their home and not one single person ever be shot. Well actually there are some:

Greed
Stupidity
Irresponsibility
Mental defect

 

If guns aren't a big deal then why try to legislate against millions of peaceful gun owners, knowing full well that it causes conflict, causes political divide, is not likely to pass, not going solve the issues it's supposed to solve, and ignores real issues?