Some wonder about my church. The latter day Saints LDS

They tolerate a lot of guff. BTW my son was taking those black name tags and putting some great art into their tags and they flocked to my son for his modifications to their name tags. Men and women missionaries own his name tags.

 

Sure, not going to the Temple is punishment for an active, believing Mormon.

And the LDS Church does not have the legal authority to putting anyone in jail.

 

Yep, we're all economic cattle to be milked - with menaces called 'laws' - by non-contributing parasites who consider themselves born to rule.

I've just re-read that - blimey, I'm so cynical it frightens me!

 

Do I envy wealth? Or do I think that mega rich people who have used community resources in the process of accumulating their wealth shouldn't jib at paying their share?

 

Their share of taxes is your share. Are you superior to them and have a need to pay less given you get the same government they get.

 

They use more than I do. Their voice is louder than mine- lobbyists for mining, banks,etc.

 

Democrats in office or in congress believe they are the blessed messiah we all think we want. They see themselves as puffed up as a magic dragon blowing fire and smoke.

The most we republicans seek is to take off your chains so you get to live a free life.

Perhaps you recall how furious the Democrats were when Trump drove down taxes. They were in a state of rage. Still are in fact.

 

Actually I submit they pay much more than you pay yet per dollar get far less. And those lobbyists? You have hundreds of them working for you. Lobbyists work for all groups of humans.

 

As a Brit I don't follow American politics closely, but I can imagine it. Power doesn't only corrupt, it deludes too.

 

I mean, my criticism is not unique to you or the LDS, it is very similar to my go-to criticism of most views (I gave communists as an example, but it is true for most groups). I reckon a moderate fraction of those you call bigots hold the same views, albeit they might phrase it less openly.

Fundamentally, epistemology is a problem. The fact that so many people believe so different things tells us that we cannot trust our instincts when it comes to what we should believe. Now, I'm not sure exactly what this woman reported to you, but the way you put it "She did not try to cover all the bases. She did not try to preach to me. That i felt was very interesting.", makes me think she appealed to the part of your brain that turns Taoists Taoist, Muslims Muslim, Catholics Catholic, communists communists, etc. and that can't be a good thing, because apparently it is influenced by things other than truth (unless Taoists, Muslims, Catholics, communists and everyone else are simultaneously right).

That is my fundamental problem with most groups/views. The LDS church doesn't seem to me to address this any better than any other group.

 

No, I am not a bigot. A bigot has intolerance to other people with a different opinion. I simply am an atheist But if someone asks me a question as you did, I will answer.

 

Baloney! Were those subsequent wives older or uglier? NO, they were YOUNGER....LOL, just a weak excuse for men to do what ever they damn please (adultery) no matter how their wives felt.

Women were just supposed to accept it or be labeled "bad".

Uh, ya, not to the MAN !!!....and since women aren't supposed to have feelings that disrupt MEN'S lives their sexual lives were NOT important.

How nice and easy for men to justify their lack of control by making it about religion!!

So marriage is ONLY about sex for men and there is nothing else?!!!


Do ALL women have "lower sex drive".....????


How does the Church measure women's sex drive to se if their husbands deserve sex with more women??


WHY can't women have more than one husband???

 

No not specifically. I do not respect any religious sect that believes that their scriptures are the inerrant literal word of their god.

Whataboutery doesn't play well

I am aware of the role of tithing. I see nothing wrong with the concept at all.

Imagine a church doing good works. As for suggesting your church is better at responding to natural disasters than FEMA and other government agencies that is a ridiculous fallacious comparison.

Again, it comes down to you believing in a literal interpretation of biblical mythology as evidence that your god exists. Intellectually this is simply circular logic and rejection of acquired knowledge. Emotionally it's something else entirely since such belief can work for an individual.

Does your church have a problem with sexual abuse like the others?

 

I will cope with you and your attack style statement this way. Where you asked me lucid questions I want to explain. Where it is nonsense, try to speak decently and i will then decide.

First the words in the Old Testament are constructed by Jews. Since it is their book, best get advice on that book from them .

My church accepts the Bible. We also question it's complete accuracy so Smith took on the task of trying to make it a better story in some areas and try to make it more what one would think would please GOD. Men wrote the old testament.

After the death of Jesus. more men also wrote that book. Actually it was more like a collection of various pamphlets than a single book. Various males tried to relate a story they knew from years previous. Memories fade over time. So we accept the New testament to the point it is correct. But it is not a book written by GOD but by men who accept GOD.

As to the book of Mormon, earlier men put down a record of events. And Smith and his gold plates is their story. I do not recall my church alleging God wrote the Book of mormon but it was the story told by men of the time and I believe the major author was Mormon. That is why it is called his book.

Key figures are also mentioned in the same book. GOD I believe did not show up on earth to write historical books that are religious in nature. Jesus wrote no books. Men did.

I do not call the people living in CA a sect. If you state people living in New Jersey are a sect, no I do not believe that either. Apparently you think our members are dumb people. We have many many scientists among us. We have historians, university presidents, thousands of lawyers and farmers and plenty of other occupations. For you to judge us all as dumb ass dummies is an insult to me and other members. An insult out of line and not needed to make your point. A sect sounds like we are so stupid we simply treat our bishops as gods themselves and our church president as lord all mighty. We do not.

What is whataboutery? Is it a way to show your lack of respect? When a person takes the time to write you back, show them respect. They could have just ignored your taunt.

Tithing is actually ancient. And since government refuses to support any church, the church has to be self sufficient. We Mormons cache vast supplies that we take in our trucks to those in dire need such as at Katrina and other disasters. We do not toot our horns about it but we rush in to assist all locals no matter their church or even if they are atheists, we help them survive. We do not have tests on survivors to help them.

I have put in hours at the local food bank. This is a non sect food bank. The fact is large stores donate food. I have handled food donated by many stores. But the rest of the story is we have our Missionaries who weekly go work there to help the community out.

Does the Catholic church or the Methodist or the Baptists also assign members to work those places for the public good? Frankly i saw none. Clearly one can easily spot our own missionaries. Who man the food banks. Courts of law impose on defendants who lost their case community service. So other than the Missionary Mormons, one expects most working there were convicted of misdemeanors.

I know what our church does in disasters. i know we have huge farms. We have canneries. We believe in community service. We have surplus food and we take it to disasters faster than FEMA and for you to ridicule such assistance to victims is a lousy attitude.

Your typical low level so called informed voter makes claims about my church to prove they are bigots. They do not know facts but pretend they do. They want to lash out at my church as were we also Catholics yet they do not name Catholics. They do not name Jews. They in bigot fashion will lash out at my church. i get sick of the lies.

You refer to MY GOD. We do not see GOD as our GOD. GOD is the creator of this planet and the entire universe. Science to date has no other explanation that fits all facts. A lot of what science beliefs is pure speculation So do you also think of science as a cult full of false beliefs?

Sexual abuse is done by individuals. Even when it happens to the Catholics, i do not accept that their teaching to the members is to justify abuse and anoint the abuse as church doctrine.

Do not confuse me with the man who is in prison charged and convicted for multiple women wives and in general what the law alleged is abuse of members of his sect and that is that. We do not accept abuse against any human in any church or even by bigots not attending church. Most crimes are done by non religious people.

 

If they continue to make money, how can they be not getting value for the tax they pay?
The lobbyists I was thinking of are the ones who influence a political party to agitate for more coal fired power stations, deny global warming, support cotton farmers who want more river water for the irrigation of their crops, want live sheep exports to continue and decry the state of over regulation in my country.

 

Money does not come because one sucks from government nor if one approves of it or does not approve. Money comes for several reasons. First who sets goals? Second do they plan effectively. Think of a professional football coach. He has to have a good staff of players. And very good coaches. But more, he must make plans and he must set goals and manage the game to win.

Serena Williams did not collect a dime due to Government. Serena had no games won due to lobbyists. Same with Oprah Winfrey.

What happens to Americans is men promise things. And the public enjoys said promises. They join the club in DC. Those smoke cigars and plot new laws. And laws must be obeyed or jail is in the future.

The rich have the same leeches in government you and i have. Frankly I do not envy the wealthy since to get wealthy it is a very tall uphill battle with leeches in congress trying to yank off the wheels of progress by more than taxes, but using the clubs of laws.

The poor do not face the uphill war. They lay low and do not set goals or prepare to get wealthy and so on. Read the book by Napoleon Hill called Think and Grow rich,.Non thinkers have no chance,.

 

Not everyone worships at the altar of Get Rich.
Enough can be enough for most people.

What is Serenade Williams problem? I don't understand the reference.

What happens to Americans is that they elect brave new souls who go to DC and get vilified because they are Democrats.

Are you referring to environmental protection laws?

Money comes in large volumes if you have large volumes to begin with.

Planning has nothing to do with the whether it is right to pay your share of tax.

Don't blame poor people for being poor, it is Dickensian.

 

I applaud your good works. I applaud your tithe. I am glad your faith provides you with spiritual fulfillment. That is the point of religion, afterall.

If I understand your argument is and Smith's gold plates represent the "eyewitness" accounts of men and his "translation" of those plates is the Book of Mormon? From what I've read about them, they were an elaborate prop.

I have read a number of books wrt Smith. According to historical fact, he was a nasty piece of work.

 

I am done. That slam against the youthful man who formed this church is all I can stand.

 

so,
1 & 2. follow all the rules and rituals as dictated by the church
3. Recruit more members
4. brainwash the kids

cool, sounds like most churches

 

No, we differ with the rest of the churches. Were this not so, we would scatter to those other churches.

My church does not dictate. We are very gentle that way.

I have been posting for more than 20 years. In the past 20 years, I have never encountered a Democrat saying he or she is a church member. Thousands of times, I get told things by Democrats such as GOD is that myth in the sky. I see virtually no fighting that Jews are lousy yet I am told my church is lousy.

Catholics are almost never attacked except for some of their priests and that is over sex. But for an odd reason the leaping on Catholics is just not done.

One might think I could find some Democrats that attend Church. Oh well, i w3ill keep looking for one.

Frankly I do see Democrats defending the deadly religion known as Islam and their Muslims can murder thousands and seldom will a democrat complain.

It is causing me to form a rather poor opinion of Democrats.

 

What happens if you refuse one of the rituals... are you frowned upon or seen as a wayward member who needs to be visited upon more frequently and guided back towards the light?

And.. can you use sex as a guiding light?

 

I know many Democrats who are LDS.

Robert knows some, too, even if he is unaware of it or lives in Hildale.

 

What ritual might you be asking about? The rituals i can think of are 1. Baptism, It perhaps has happened, though I can't prove it, a person reaches the point of being baptized and at the last moment decided not now. They may not come back or perhaps later do it.
Accepting the blessings of the Priesthood. Never saw it happen. Women rejecting a calling. Never saw it. We have a very patient church. We do not scorn people. We have a lot of members that came from other churches. They commonly state our church is a lot better.

But let's take me as a personal story and perhaps it will inform you.

Say I attend church regularly for a few years. Suddenly I decide not to go to church. No more sunday school or priesthood meetings or sacrament meetings at all. I flat stop going to church.

Suddenly since I dearly love the church. I resume attending and gol back to attending. Nobody calls me on the carpet to make me feel bad or demand I tithe again.

Does that cover your question on this issue?

What does sex have to do with the Church? Well a lot of the sunday school teachers are women. They do not try to humiliate us over sex. Sex is not part of the guiding principles as your question hints.

More... you are the first and only person to ask me those kind of questions.

May I learn from you the basis of you asking those things?

 

I know a man and his wife who are LDS. I think I have said in the past we have about 20 percent who are Democrats. They are vastly different than the forum Democrats.