Spoiled Milk: The Mann Act, California and CAPTA Funding

Easily done.

Shilts never once said that Milk was having sex with McKinley or any 16 year old.

More importantly- because you made the specific claim that Milk took 16 year old McKinley to California- that is just an outright lie.

Milk and McKinley were in NY together from 1963 (page 30) to 1967(page 37), when they moved to Texas but Jack moved back after a 'few weeks".

McKinley moved to San Francisco in 1968 because he got a job as stage director of "Hair"(page 3

Milk followed. McKinley was 21 years old when McKinley moved to California and Milk followed.

So your claim is a lie.

 

I haven't seen anyone here support pedophilia. Could you point out a post where you think someone has?

I am firmly against pedophilia- the majority of cases which happen to be men assaulting girls. This is Silhouettes third or fourth thread accusing Milk of having sex with a minor teenager, and we have repeatedly pointed out that there is both no evidence to support that claim, and that the victim himself never accused Milk of that.

So which post is supporting pedophilia?

 

And no one bothered to say that Milk was having sex with McKinley. Not even McKinley.

And you yourself provided the quote that showed that 'lover' means sexual or romantic love.

Do I think Milk probably was having sex with McKinley- yes. But I am not going to convict Milk based upon my speculation on what he may have done 30 years ago, when there is no one alive who knows for sure.

I likewise do not condemn Thomas Jefferson for his alleged illicit sexual relationship with his slave.

We celebrate Jefferson and Milk for what they accomplished, not for what we suspect they did wrong.

 

From a 1996 article. What I find interesting about this is several things:
a) the article points out the problem of 'adult men who prey on teenage girls'- note they don't call this pedophilia. They call this rape.

This is important because Sihouette and Grok both are portraying Milk and all Gays as pedophiles because they believe Milk had sex with a 16 year old. But according to NY this was rape- not child abuse- not pedophilia.

Of course no one ever accused Milk of any kind of sexual abuse- except Sihouette- 40 years later based upon a casual third hand reference that she interprets as SODOMY.

Doyle Unveils Outdoor Advertising for Not Me, Not Now
Monroe County Executive Jack Doyle today launched the first phase in a comprehensive County campaign to stem one of the biggest causes of teen pregnancy - adult men who prey on teenage girls.

Doyle, in a news conference in front of a billboard on Lexington Avenue, unveiled the next phase of the County's "Not Me, Not Now" campaign - a billboard campaign aimed at raising awareness about statutory rape and changing attitudes about relationships between adult men and teenage girls.

"Two-thirds of births to teenage girls have been fathered by older men," said Doyle. "We hope these billboards come as a wake-up call to those older men. We will no longer sit back and wait for the welfare bills to roll in. We're going to be proactive, we're going to educate the community about the costly crisis and we're going to make those accountable. Statutory rape is a crime, and it is a crime that must be punished."

In New York, sex between men 21 or over and girls under the age of 17 is third degree rape, punishable by a sentence of up to 1 1/3 to 4 years in prison.

Doyle also announced that the County's Department of Social Services will begin referring cases to the District Attorney from information gleaned when pregnant and parenting teens apply for welfare benefits.

"At the same time that we're educating the community, we need to take a hard stand within the criminal justice system," Doyle said. "Sex with girls under 17 is rape. It is a felony and it must be dealt with appropriately. Offenders must be punished."

There were nearly 1,000 births to teenage mothers in Monroe County last year. If national statistics hold true, that means that as many as 600 children were fathered by adult men and teen girls last year alone. In Monroe County last year, there were three indictments for Third Degree Rape.

 

Did they move to san francisco for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose, or did they move because of a desire to find a new job or because they liked the weather better? The law you quote seems to be talking about sex trade, which I'm sure you'd love to tie into Harvey Milk but you have no case for it. So no, even if Harvey is guilty of everything you say he is, this law does not apply.

Embellish much? As has been pointed out to you, he was neither drug addicted or mentally ill when they met.

Never even accused of a crime until now, never prosecuted, never convicted.

Actually you are making that part up, as public schools are not "forced" to do anything. It's an opportunity to do something, which they have the right to decline.

Have you read it? Thus far the only quotes I've seen you use are the same quotes on popular "anti-harvey milk" sites.

I don't know, my grandmother got married at 17, and gave birth at 18... I'd say our family turned out fine. Children are exposed to the dark side of many historical figures, even some with national holidays. Recognition of one's accomplishments doesn't mean emulating everything about them, and it doesn't mean misunderstanding them out of the context of their time.

 

Makes sense now. It makes sense how he will paint his impressions of Harvey as she does, as a child hawking predatory pedophile.... while painting my grandfather who married my grandmother at 17 as being in a "sweet, loving relationship". Trama will change you, and may even distort or bias your judgment. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder can cause war veterans to think they're being attacked at any given moment, easily distorting their world around them to fit their expectations of trama. It can also distort your view of who was responsible, and project your fear or anger towards ALL those who have similar attributes...

Not all homosexuals people are like that, and there are certainly a heck of a lot more heterosexuals who assault and abuse girls... and boys.

I will say this. While I don't believe that just because you recognize Harvey Milk's accomplishments as a gay rights activist means you support pedophilia, I DO understand that you should be sensitive to delicate issues such as this. It's kinda like the radio stations being asked not to play songs like "Great Balls of Fire" on September 11th.... the song might be completely innocent, but people's sensitivity interpretations might be traumatic. There are limits to how "PC" you have to be, and just because a radio station plays the song does not mean they're supporting the 9/11 attacks, rather it may just mean they're being ignorant of it or they don't see playing the song as a sensitive issue requiring careful consideration. Still, it's worth considering. A case of consensual sex in a 5 year long relationship between Harvey and Jack is nothing like the trama the OP faced in being forcefully assaulted, but sensitivity should be considered nevertheless.

 

Actually, for the reasons you've stated above, statutory rape laws were created to address teenage pregnancy. They were not about saying a teenager can't or should not fall in love... teenagers are often encouraged to explore love. Rather, statutory rape laws are about protecting minors from consequences that they don't have the experience to understand... namely the consequence of teenage pregnancy. Teenagers explore love all the time. Marriage is even allowed for young and old teenagers, as this scenario does not present the risk of the minor facing teenage pregnancy without the father. Previously, this could have been charged as adultery, but since adultery is no longer illegal, statutory rape laws came into existence to protect minors.

There is a long, long, LONG history of people that we would call "minors" today marrying, having sex and raising families. But today, unlike in previous generations, the consequences for teenage pregnancy are severe... hence the importance of statutory rape laws. While the risk of teenage pregnancy is not an issue for homosexual relations, the HIV epidemic has created some equally severe consequences requiring just as much protection for minor boys as girls.

In other words, statutory rape laws were not created to protect minors from love that they can't understand... they are there to protect them from consequences of that love, particularly at the hands of someone more experienced and worldly who can take advantage of them. It's not illegal, for example, for someone over the age to date a minor... it's only illegal for them to sleep with each other, at least unless they are married.

I say this to try and put the characterizations and demonizations that the OP tries to create into perspective. The OP had the bias enough to call the marriage of my grandpa to his 17 year old bride "sweet and loving" (or something of that toon), demonstrating that he understands even a teenager can fall in love, and that it's OK for that to happen. But he did so without knowing ANYTHING else about them, while he calls Harvey a child hawking predatory pedophile. The bias is rather obvious.

I do find it highly unusual, even "skeevy" for someone in their 30's to get involved with a 16 year old... but to demonize it with such venom as calling it "child hawking predatory pedophilia" while calling my grandparent's relationships "sweet and loving"... to me this tells only of a strong personal bias and vendetta, ignoring the basic reality that teenagers can and do fall in love, they do marry, and they do raise families. It is becoming less and less common today (and for good reason), but we're not talking about "today" anyway. We're talking about someone who would be the same age as my grandpa if he were alive today.

Just to be clear, by no means am I suggesting "teenage love" as a good standard for today. We live in a very different society, where we treat women as equals... and part of doing that means not marrying them at 14 and allowing them the opportunity for an education. We live in a society that has many risks and temptations, where a highschool education is a REQUIREMENT, not a luxury. A time where the demands on us in general require a firm level of maturity, worldly knowledge and education requiring that teenage love must be highly regulated and controlled.

 

Harvey Milk began sodomizing a 16 year old minor boy in New York and travelled with that boy between states while they were together. The boy, Jack McKinley was homeless, on drugs and mentally ill when Harvey Milk took advantage of that and began sodomizing him as a minor. Forget the timeline and the ages of consent when and where...today's values do not reflect sodomizing 16 year old teens who are vulnerable, homeless, on drugs and mentally ill. That children are required to emulate these values by emulating Milk himself "and all that he stood for" which california law SB 572 actually puts langauge that says Milk embodies the entire LGBT movement, is reprehensible. Kids can check out the book The Mayor of Castro Street. Can you imagine a child being taught that Milk is a "hero" and embodies the GLBT values system and then having that child learn that "heros" sodomize minor boys on drugs and mentally ill?

 

why do you continue to lie after being caught?


not one thing in your entire post is true

 

Post where you or anyone else caught me "lying" about these quotes from Randy Shilts biography of Harvey Milk: The Mayor of Castro Street. Here are quotes directly from the book:

Are you saying Randy Shilts was a "liar"? Hard to believe since he was Milk's friend and an accredited gay journalist...

 

ok.

nowhere in the quotes you provided, does it say milk sodomized anyone. nor does it say he had sex with a 16 year old boy, or travelled across state lines.

you aren't fooling anyone

 

Where are the other law and justice topics from the Current Events forum? Where are the Treyvon threads? Why are they allowed to remain?

 

Anyone remember Moscone? He was the mayor that got shot along with Milk after Moscone refused to accept Dan White's (the shooter) reinstatement after resignation. Moscone and Jim Jones (the People's temple) were close and during Moscone's election busloads of People's Temple folks voted for him...some were not even registered. (Typical Democrat ballot-box suffing) Reports say that Jones supplied Moscone with underage girls for sex and that Moscone attended People's Temple parties on a regular basis.

Now Moscone, along with Milk is revered as a gay rights icon. Both were corrupt, dirty politicians. Did they deserve to die? NO...In fact now they are considered martyrs for the gay 'cause' as their 'legacy' has been sanitized and re-written to make them (expecially Milk) as some kind of gay heroes. It's all nonsense.

 

It is nonsense. Except the "democrats always stuff the ballots" part....we don't do that any more than republicans stuff the pockets of the EPA with oil money..

Milk did not die for any gay cause. He died because his assassin was mad that he usurped his elected seat..if memory serves. So he is no "gay martyr". Milk also was not dishonorably discharged for being gay from the Navy. He was honorably discharged and lied that he wasn't to gain sympathy for the gay movement.

 

As wrong as everything else you post about Milk.

 

You ask us to point out your lies- here is one- an easy one.

You say that children can check out Shilts book and learn that Milk 'sodomize'd minor boys' but no child could learn that from Shilts book.

Because Shilts doesn't use the word 'sodomize' even once.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mayor-Castro-Street-Stonewall/dp/0312019009#reader_0312019009

Type in sodomize or sodomized- not mentioned once in your book.

Just your pure invention- i.e. your lie.

 

He had a hand in the mess that drove his killer over the line. He got the upper edge and being a hatefilled anti-hetero homosexual he did everything he could to harm his co council member politically.

 

I will point out once again the mismatch of lies and purposely misleading information here.
a) There is not one bit of evidence that Milk ever sodomized McKinley- this is purely a product of your lurid imagination.
b) Milk never travelled out of New York with that 'boy'- McKinley was over 18 when they were in Texas, and over 21 when Milk followed McKinley to California.
c) McKinley was not 'homeless'- he was living with Tom O'Horgan when he met Milk (page 30)- so that is another lie.
d) Shilts does not mention McKinley being on drugs until a year after he met Milk(page 36)
e) Shilts does not claim that McKinley was mentally ill when he met Milk, only that he got 'worse'- and again on page 36, when Milk starts to be concerned about McKinley's mental health- he sends him to a psychiatrist.

 

So the official gay-lie is that even though it is documented that the gay sex promiscuity promoter and avid boy sex-toy fan Harvey Milk took a 16 year old drug addicted and mentally ill LOVER that he officiated as MARRIED TO [while also officiating as his "father figure"] in a state where the age of consent at the time was 17; we are to believe he never had sex with the boy he called his lover and was "married" to and that somehow the two who loved to travel to San Francisco from New York, never did so until the boy turned 18.

Yeah, sure. And up is down. Black is white. Old is young. Got any more words in the english language you want to retool to fit your fourth-stage denial? "Lover" means he was having sex with the boy. CASE CLOSED.

 

Wow.....you have the same way of inventing history as Silhouette does. Bravo.

 

You ask us to point out your lies- here is one- an easy one.

You say that children can check out Shilts book and learn that Milk 'sodomize'd minor boys' but no child could learn that from Shilts book.

Because Shilts doesn't use the word 'sodomize' even once.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mayor-Cast...der_0312019009

Type in sodomize or sodomized- not mentioned once in your book.

Just your pure invention- i.e. your lie.

 

Pointing out your lies is just amusing.

Using your own reference, Shilts describes exactly when McKinley and Milk travelled from New York to San Francisco

Page 38- "Harvey asked for a transfer back to New York in 1968"
"McKinley got the job as stage director for the San Francisco production of "Hair". Harvey followed and took a job as a financial analyst on Montgomery St.

In 1968, McKinley was 21 years old.

You just make stuff up to support your obsession.

 

No the official lie is that you keep making is that Milk is documented as sodomizing a minor teenager, when what you have is your speculation.

I have no idea what you mean by 'officiating'- it doesn't even make sense in context unless you think Harvey Milk was acting as an official marrying people. But then again...nothing else you post really makes sense either.

 

Well I can talk about eating salt water taffy and not use the word "sticky" even once. Does that mean it isn't? Just because Shilts didn't use the word "sodomize" doesn't mean that Harvey Milk having sex with a 16 year old drug addicted and mentally ill minor [male on male sex] didn't include sodomy. Are you suggesting Milk only received or gave BJs to the boy? Are we to assume Milk never had anal sex with the boy, even though Milk was all about anal sex and lots of it with many many partners over the years he was into "young waifs with substance abuse problems".

We won't retool reality for you in language, marriage or school curriculum.

 

Dance away from your lies all you can. But the fact remains you lied.

I will repeat:

You ask us to point out your lies- here is one- an easy one.

You say that children can check out Shilts book and learn that Milk 'sodomize'd minor boys' but no child could learn that from Shilts book.

Because Shilts doesn't use the word 'sodomize' even once.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mayor-Cast...der_0312019009

Type in sodomize or sodomized- not mentioned once in your book.

Just your pure invention- i.e. your lie.

Oh and Silhouette- to compound your lie.

Shilts doesn't mention Anal sex either.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Mayor-Castro-Street-Stonewall/dp/0312019009#reader_0312019009

So the only place that children would learn about Harvey Milk sodomizing a minor is from you- because they couldn't learn it from Shilts as you keep claiming.