Tamir rice protesters want cleveland prosecutor to step down

Firstly it's less than 2 seconds, not three, and according to the initial reports he yelled out the sentence 3 times in that 2 seconds. If only there was no video evidence, that LEO could have still used that scenario and no one would have known except the driver. When did the story change I wonder. I see that now you are going away from your assertion that the LEO ordered the boy to put his gun down. I wonder if that is because you now realise that to obey the orders the boy has to touch his gun

 

Yea my head is pretty thick. Can you please post the enhanced version you watched because even the so-called experts say they couldn't make out exactly what was happening, maybe you have a better technique than everyone else.

I've looked at the video repeatedly and I can't see what you are speaking of. The car pulls up and 2 seconds later the kid is shot.

 

Everyone does act innocent including those that are innocent.

And the one that made the call carried on sitting behind the boy for ages - so much for him being so scared

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What was he ordered to do?

 

Yes indeed he could have yelled it 3 times, I just tested this with a stop watch. It took me .9 seconds to yell "Drop the gun" 3 times as fast as I possibly could.

One less HBD my friends will have to deal with in the future.

 

Seriously.

 

Yes. A tragic outcome.

 

Exactly. Simple physics, that being the time it takes to say such even once, shows that there was no "Drop the gun" command being complied with, or that it was said even once. It would take 2 seconds to just to say it once, and then another couple of seconds for the kid to even begin to comply. Fact is, it was not said in the context of the shooting, as it could not have been said, and even then begun to be complied with, in 2 seconds. The kid was not responding to a command. Cop saw a gun being pulled at very close range, and reacted immediately.

"Hands up. Don't shoot" shows us how false narratives will be fomented, and embraced, by the cop haters.

 

It's clear the dispatcher's fault of not relaying correct information led the trained officers to what they thought was an active shooter. When they arrived they saw someone that was holding a weapon. The more I look at your post, the more it looks like they did everything right.

 

I like how you attempted to take it out of context like that. Good job.

Sure, they got the call, but when they got there he wasn't doing that. He was quite literally sitting there alone with no one around to threaten or endanger. So, why did the cops bring the drama? Why approach with guns drawn, speeding up and screaming "DROP THE GUN!!!" Why the urgency if there's no immediate danger in an open carry state?

I know you're not going to answer or even think about the questions because they make your 'the cops can do no wrong' viewpoint look stupid.

They did do their job wrong. Their job is to de-escalate, not ramp it up. Their job is to bring order, they didn't bring anything but chaos when they arrived on the scene. Their job is to bring criminals to judge, not dispense it unilaterally. Yes, they did their job wrong.

 

About this its fake business. What was the caller going on in establishing his opinion that the gun could be fake? The gun didn't look fake at all. He was simply assuming that it was fake because who would brandish a real gun.

 

Really.................

So I guessed you just glossed over all of this.......


One remaining and altogether damning question is how on earth the Cleveland Police Department reasonably believed that Loehmann should have been a cop in the first place.

He had previously been declared unfit by the police department in Independence, Ohio. A senior supervisor there wrote that Loehmann “could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal.”

“I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct the deficiencies,” Independence Police Deputy Chief Jim Polak concluded.

Loehmann had also taken and failed the written exam for the Cuyahoga County Sheriff’s Department. He had applied unsuccessfully to police departments in the Ohio cities of Akron, Parma Heights, and Euclid.

The ultimate fault is in ourselves for permitting our country to become a place where a 12-year-old with a toy gun gets shot to death by a cop who is found to have been in reasonable fear for his life.

But Cleveland hired Loehmann nonetheless. He was sitting in a patrol car with his training officer when the fateful report came over the radio.

After two years of missed opportunities to address the underlying deficiencies, the Cleveland Police Department was on the way to another systematic failure, one in which a cop who never should have been hired responded to a report absent of vital details that almost certainly would have changed everything.

Had Loehmann and his training officer heard those details, they would have rolled up with the expectation that Tamir Rice might be what he in fact was: a juvenile with a toy gun.

Loehmann might have understood that the youngster who was walking toward the radio car and reaching into his waistband was most likely trying to show the cops that what he had was not a threat.

A more trainable and better-trained cop might not have fired. Cops make real gun collars by the thousands and thousands each year without firing a shot.

Come on dude, seriously, I mean seriously......

You even called this guy "well trained".......

Really I thought you above the others in here had much more objectivity than that, I'm disappointed.

 

Except the mistake was on the part of Rice, he presented the gun as one that fired bullets. Again this fast and loose manner in which you twist the meaning of words. It was not a mistake in their judgement that it was a gun that fired bullets, it looked exactly like one and in fact Rice had made sure it looked exactly like one. So there was no mistake in the officers reacting to it as a bullet firing gun.

 

A 31-year-old woman, whose name was redacted from the report, told investigators she heard someone shout “Freeze! Show me your hands”, but only after she heard two gunshots. She said she heard a third shot after the shouting.

A 15-year-old boy who knew Tamir said he heard two shots close together and a third a short while later.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rs-report-witnesses-contradict-police-officer

The LEO stated that he yelled to the the boy “Freeze! , Freeze! Freeze, Show me your hands”, before he was shot. Conspiracy between two officers? Did he withdraw that statement after he was made aware of the video?

 

The "tactic" of getting close very fast was a primary contributing factor in this kid's death.

Let me treat this as if it were an air accident investigation. We look at all the contributing factors to the accident. Let me assemble those factors in this case, in chronological order:

1. Tamir, or someone, removed the orange tip to the pellet gun he was carrying.

I'm not sure how much to weight this factor. The tip of the gun would have been inside Tamir's waistband when the officers arrived, so I'm not sure if it were still in place, it would have affected the officers' decisions. But having the orange tip may have alerted the initial 911 caller that the gun was not real, and thus avoided the confrontation in the first place. But that said, thorough investigations acknowledge that accidents rarely result from just one factor. If you want to make people distrust police more than they already do, focus on just this one factor and ignore the others, as if we are all too stupid to realize that multiple factors led to this kid's death.

2. Tamir decided to take the gun to the park and brandish it, reportedly, because he wanted to intimidate other kids who were bullying him.

Undoubtedly, a mistake. But a mistake made by a child. Now let's get to the mistakes made by trained professionals.

3. The dispatcher failed to relay what the caller reported: that the suspect was probably a juvenile, and the gun might be fake.

This information could have affected factor #4, as it may have changed the manner in which the police approached Tamir.

4. The first officers on scene failed to observe and assess the situation, and only gave themselves 2 seconds to determine what was happening.

I've already stated my opinions on this "tactic". It only escalated the situation. And imo, this is the primary contributing factor that led to Tamir's death.

5. The officers' initial commands to Tamir.

This factor is still an unknown, at least to me, and from what I can tell, to everyone in this thread. Which speaks volumes. Why is it unclear what the officers' commands were after all this time? If the command was, "Drop the weapon", it would have induced Tamir to reach for it. Shady imo.

 

I'm sorry but if you believe that driving up fast on on the kid is greater factor than removing the orange tip and brandishing the gun at people is the gun at people I cant say that you are taking an honest look at this.

 

The fact was, there was no tension, no danger whatsoever when those officers arrived. They decided to create it, and I have seen cops do this many times (remember pool party cop?). If they would have simply observed the situation for a mere 30 seconds, it would have been clear that no danger existed in that park. Additionally, their tactic would have put themselves in danger if Tamir really were a dangerous criminal with a gun. The driver put himself, and especially his partner, in danger by parking his partner's face right next to the subject.

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*) all you want. It does not shift the burden from the person removing the orange cap and threatening people with a gun. You have latched onto this one issue because you dont have anything else. The kid shoulders the majority of the burden here that is clear and under our justice system that is what matters.

 

I am not aware of a single individual who said they were threatened by Tamir except the officer who claims that within the 2 seconds he knew Tamir, he threatened him.

 

IF the information given by Dispatch had been 100% correct -- "a man is pointing a gun at people" -- and the officers had just sat back, and the guy got off a couple wild shots killing some granny sitting at a nearby picnic table, THEN the hysteria would have been, "The cops just sat back and let that guy murder my grandmother … !!!"

So, no … Police officers are not trained/paid/meant to be roving squads of social workers …

Their job is broadly, "public safety," and that includes one way or other eliminating a threat posed by a wild guy threatening the entire community with a "gun" ...

 

Well that is on you. There is video of Tamir pointing his gun at people. Your abject and deliberate ignorance is not evidence.

http://www.wowktv.com/story/30840539/the-latest-cameras-showed-tamir-rice-pointing-gun-at-people

 

So glad I didn't have to break that down Barney style to this guy

 

I was the one that acknowledged that as a contributing factor. The only people ignoring evidence are those that aren't acknowledging the other factors I mentioned.

 

I don't know what Barney style means, but I broke it down like a real person would. If Tamir was my son, I would not be so flippant as to say, "Oh, he removed the orange tip of a toy gun and waved it in a park, he got what he deserved." Everyone here knows damn well they would not think that. I'm being real.

 

I very carefully taught my children, and now my grandchildren, basic basic basic "gun safety" …

And the most basic basic basic thing is, "Don't point a gun at anything or anyone you don't plan to shoot …" … AND … "Every gun is loaded … " AND … "Watch where your muzzle is pointed … " …

And yes, when my grandchildren now for several years have enjoyed playing with "nerf" guns I have consistently insisted, "At targets only; NOT at people; at TARGETS ONLY; NOT at PEOPLE …" …

So, yes … The parents or whoever allowed that kid to play outdoors with a realistic looking toy gun with the range tip removed do indeed bear some personal parental responsibility for this terrible unnecessary tragedy ...

 

Tamir Rice Shooting: Officer Who Killed 12-Year-Old Deemed Unfit for Duty by Previous Police Force

http://www.christianpost.com/news/t...fit-for-duty-by-previous-police-force-130670/