Test Pilot Admits the F-35 Can’t Dogfight New stealth fighter is dead meat in an a

Early in Development? Christ, its 100mil over budget and almost 5 years late. The dog fight is going to be around it isn't going to end and it never will. The air war in Vietnam showed that. Something in both Gulf Wars.

 

There was an F-14 shot down in 91 too.

 

Uh … when I quoted last time Wikipedia as source, I was nearly tarred and feathered by my opponent in matter of posting fairy tales, but OK…

Eurofighter:
https://www.eurofighter.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon

Gripen:
http://saab.com/air/gripen-fighter-system/gripen/gripen/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen

Rafale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/defense/rafale/introduction/

Because it is not my job to take your hand and to show you how to use Google for your un-proofed claims and opinions you always tell only, you see at all links all necessary data’s, names of systems used and then you can copy / paste them into Google to find out more.

At least I have no further desire to counter again and again your thought and opinion of F35 is the best in world aside F22 and rest of world has nothing to counter them. If you think so, then it is your right to do so, but aside promotion jabbering you brought no serious facts to counter all these critics against F-35. Really funny is that you are still thinking that “because F35 has a huge BVR advantage, dogfight is superfluous”.
I showed you with technical data and naming used systems that this is only a myth … but of course only my opinions, because you are too lazy to use google and until I bombard you with links, it is only a claim of me.

 

The F-22 Raptor cannot be detected by any existing other nations Aircraft.

The F-35 cannot be either.

The F-35 has been designed to carry the new CUDA Hypersonic Missile and work with the new B-1MC's as B-1B's are being converted to AIR TO AIR MISSILE CARRIERS which just 6 F-35's can access the CUDA Missiles carried by the Hndreds on a B-1MC which is Supersonic and can skirt an ariel battle and the F-35's can launch those Cuda's from the B-1MC's.

Thus 6 F-35's and one B-1MC can shoot down about 300 enemy aircraft.

AboveAlpha

 

Source for this?

Aside fact that F-22 was still detected during trials with Eurofighter at Red Flag 2012 ... and shot down when being unable to stay in BVR, you forget that the US are not the only nation of producing hight tech issues.

 

I will give you this for now....I don't think I should have discussed the B-1MC.

LINK...http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17332.0.html

LINK...http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/details-emerge-about-lockheeds-cuda-missile-382670/

AboveAlpha

 

As I have learned by my own when done too in another matter on other place ... to quote in a forum discussion of another forum is a bad source. About the other link, I will point out via Quotation out of it this:

Even Lockheed can claim much without any proof and I see here no proof ... or let me say, I see here no more proof as what I have told with official technical data's of manufactures what was be quoted to be irrelevant and this here is even lesser as that what I gave.

 

You can Google CUDA....there is a LOT about it.

The B-1MC....I should not have discussed.

AboveAlpha

 

Well ... when I told Forum user "Sadistic-Savior" a few posts before to make on investigations (to use google) for confirmation of what I told, I was answered by him that this is not his job but my... Shall I do same now as answer to you?

Joke away ... I'm slowly over with this topic. If people believe that F-35 is that average and domination plane than they shall.
For me it is clearly not, backed by evidences of pure available data of F35 and their possible modern competitors like Rafale, Eurofighter, Gripen and Russian Sukhoi T-50. F-35 is maybe a little bit in advantage more or less, but far away to be the "egg laying, wool-milk-sow" and unbeatable weapon systems.

On the other hand is F-35 for sure never alone and only part of a combat Force of many different planes and weapon systems and that US have here a clear advantage in number and maybe technologies is clear. But on the backside of this hand is a "but" too ... a real enemy with a worth able own and really modern equipped Airforce and Air Defence was until not the enemy.

my last 5 Cents about this topic ...

 

By a SAM (there were a number of U.S. and allied aircraft shot down by SAMs).

The F/A-18 in question was shot down by a Mig-25.

 

If you don't want to take the effort to demonstrate your own points, you don't have to. But you should expect to be criticized for it.

I've seen nothing in those links to support what you are claiming. I have not seen evidence in those links that stealth advantages can be negated...just that they can be reduced in specific circumstances.

 

This Australian Senate debate over the F-35 highlights a lot of what we've been talking about as far as dogfighting.

[video=youtube;GFbW5U10w0w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFbW5U10w0w[/video]

Senator gets schooled about 1 minute in.

 

As for Cost, thats relative as well. I'm ripping this off from a Reddit post, but the links support the claims made:

The cost vs capability ratio seems quite reasonable. At least for foreign governments.

 

What "real enemy with a worth able own and really modern equipped Airforce and Air Defence" will we be facing in my lifetime?

Definitely not Russia or China.

 

Yea and an F-14 was shoot down in an air to air. An F-117 was shot down by a SAM.

 

Its not that simple to compare the 2 purchases. The F-18 purchase includes the capability to convert 12 of the aircraft into Growlers, EW aircraft with their electronics and pods are very expensive and in a different class than the F-18. The Growler option appears to have more than doubled the price. Plus the purchase includes training equipment, simulators, spare parts, maintenance support, etc.

The purchase of the F-35 is actually the second purchase of F-35's from Australia, there is no mention of the second purchase including parts, simulators, etc.

And the actual operating cost of the F-35 is not known. Until F-35 squadrons are up and running in an operational fashion, actual cost per flight hour is just a guess and subject to political pressure.

The F-35 might be a deal, it might not. But cost comparisons take a lot more than a simple bottom line comparison.

 

No F-14 operated by the United States was ever shot down in air to air combat.

Some flown by the Iranians probably but not flown by the United States.

Of course F-14s flown by the U.S. only shot down five other aircraft (four Libyan swing wing fighters, and one Iraqi helicopter) and there have been indications that Iranian F-14s shot down more than 30 Iraqi aircraft.

 

Which was my point. Detractors are acting as if it's a foregone conclusion already.

 

All right if you say so.

 

Detractors have a strong argument. Costs have been higher than projected, schedules have been longer than projected, performance seems to be below what was projected (but it still might be superior to other fighters).

I suspect the F-35 airplane is going through the usual growing pains of a new airplane and will be a fine product, but I also suspect the F-35 program is rife with waste, constantly changing requirements, politics, and probably corruption. The flaws with the program might kill the airplane.

 

I don't think it will have that many growing pains actually...since a lot of the key systems were already pioneered on the F-22.

 

Most of the problems with the F-35 can be traced to Congressional requirements. It was never the idea of any branch of the U.S. military but Congress who thought to themselves

"If we can tell the military to use one airplane to replace five different types they already fly, and add in foreign sales, we can save a bunch of money through mass production (they were speculating that 2,000-2,500 would be built)."

 

Well, stealth units are intended to be more offensive than defensive, so that if you have to attack in stealth mode, to get the maximum advantage from the environmental conditions is obvious: night is always preferable to day. No doubt.

 

I dont think these planes are produced for dog fights. Their duty is to drop bombs from the relatively high altitudes and flying as fast as possible.

 

F-35's and F-22's when placed up against the best Gen 4 Fighter Aircraft on the Planet are undefeatable when operating in full stealth mode.

As well F-35's which will carry the new CUDA Hypersonic Air to Air Missile which is small but incredibly fast and many can be carried by F-35's are missiles that have NO WARHEADS!!!

They destroy other aircraft by the sheer velocity they impact another aircraft with and the Kinetic Force transfer is so great they cause more damage to enemy fighter aircraft than any existing air to air missile with a warhead existing.

As well the F-35's with the highly advanced avionics and fire control systems are designed to access and fire air to air missiles carried by the new converted B-1B Bombers which will be designated at B-1MC's or MISSILE CARRIERS.

B-1MC's can carry hundreds of CUDA air to air hypersonic missiles and as the B-1MC's are Supersonic they can fly around and skirt an aerial battle and as little as 6 F-35's can launch their CUDA's along with lanching the CUDA's carried by the B-1MC's and destroy as many as 300 enemy aircraft.

F-22's are not by the U.S. Congress allowed to be sold to any Nation even our allies due to their super advanced stealth capabilities as in Alaskan Red Flag when a brace.....two....F-22 Raptors went up against up to 14 German Typhoon Eurofighters....in mock battle....all 14 Typhoons were destroyed before they even began to know they were being fired upon.

The Alaskan Red Flag Aerial Wargames are designed to hone the skills of the U.S. Air Forces most INEXPERIENCED PILOTS as we do not send up our experienced and battle hardened pilots in such wargames as the purpose is to train and hone newer pilots skills.

The same thing with F-35 Pilots as when operating in full stealth mode it became apparent that no aircraft of any Nation was capable of locating them or shooting down an F-35 and F-35's like the F-22's cannot be located by any aircrafts radar system of any nation.

The German's were going to go home as it made no sense to continue as what was the point so a solution was made to make F-22's send out a radio signal that could be tracked by Typhoons and this allowed the German Pilots to know where the F-22's were and a German Pilot scored a KILL upon an F-22.

The European Press that had very little good news to write about WENT NUTS...AND HEADLINES IN GERMANY AND EUROPE SAID......TYPHOON EUROFIGHTER DESTROYS $200 MILLION U.S. RAPTOR!

Which really was not the case as the USAF went WAY OUT OF IT'S WAY to make the F-22's locatable for the German's.

The exact same thing happened with the F-35's as when F-35's operate in FULL STEALTH MODE....no fighter aircraft of any nation is capable of downing one.

The F-35's will be made available for export to U.S. Allies but both the F-22's and F-35's will not be built is super large Numbers for the U.S. Military as we have already developed and tested both Gen 6 and Gen 7 DRONES.

The Gen 6 Drones are remotely piloted by a pilot on the ground but the Gen 7 Drones are SELF AUTONOMOUS ROBOTIC STEALTH DRONES which have already taken off and landed autonomously from USN. Nimitz Class Carriers.

The Drones are much cheaper to build and the Gen 7 Robotic Drone comes in a number of varients such as Air Supremacy, Fighter/Attack, Tanker, Recon, Electronic Warfare and Wild Weasal.

The Air Supremacy version without the needed weight and size for a cockpit and life support and ejection seat for a human pilot has a much...much small radar return....stated to be IMPOSSIBLE to detect even if directly overhead powerful radar....plus is many times faster...more manuverable as both the F-22 and F-35 as older U.S. Fighter Aircraft have had built in manuever governors to prevent pilot blackout and even death due to G-Forces the aircraft can handle but not the pilot.

It can carry more air to air missiles and more ammo as the Gen 7 Drones being much cheaper will be built in great numbers thus unlike an F-22 Raptor which has all air to air missiles plus it can carry two 1000 lbs JDAM's internally.....the GEN 7 Robotic Air Supremacy Drones will be only dedicated to air supremacy while a different set of drones both Fighter/Attack and Bombers will be used to drop ordinance.

The Gen 7 Drones are capable of carrying enough fuel and as they are much smaller and lighter can stay flying on station for 24 to 72 hours with a full load of fuel...and this flight time can be extended longer as Gen 7 Robotic Drone Tankers will be able to perform midair refueling if a Robotic Air Supremacy Fighter has not expended it's missiles or for the other varients expended ordinance.

But as far as our allies are concerned....although anytime you skip an entire Generation of development as both the F-22 and F-35 are Gen 5 Aircraft and the F-15's, F-16's, F-18's, F-18 Superhornets are all Gen 3 Aircraft.

The Typhoon Eurofighter which is a VERY GOOD GEN 4 FIGHTER AIRCRAFT.....simply has no ability to destroy an F-22 or F-35 as they cannot locate them and an F-22 and F-35 will simply begin destroying multiple targets before they ever knew what hit them.

Russia has made a HUGE MISTAKE rushing the development of their first Gen 5 Stealth Fighter and China's claimed Stealth Fighter is a JOKE!

Russia has made the mistake of rushing their what is being called a Gen 4.5 Stealth Fighter The Sukhoi T-50.

An F-22 Raptor not only is stealthy in the extreme as well as having Supercruise.....the ability to fly at Supersonic Velocities without the aid of afterburner....capabilities.....but one of the most important aspects of the F-22 Raptor is that it has the ability TO COOL IT'S ENGINE EXHAUST thereby making it near impossible for any IR-Light Detection.

The Russian Sukhoi T-50 is not capable of cooling it's exhaust to the extent necessary to avoid IR-Light Detection and what is worse is that it has an extension upon the exhaust area of it's engines that makes the T-50 visable to U.S. Radar.

The Chinese Stealth Aircraft is anything BUT stealthy and I will not even bother to talk about it.

Member have to remember that the United States designed the F-22 back in the late 1980's and the F-22 was flying in 1996....which is almost 20 YEARS AGO!!!!!!

We are ready to go fully Robotic while Russia is just putting out a faulty stealth Gen 4.5 Fighter Aircraft, China is so far behind it is not even worth talking about....and Europe will be getting the F-35's.

AboveAlpha