The absurdly unfeasible problems with "no-planes" on 911

No-planers are the pariahs of the "911-truth" movement - as welcome as THIS

No Planers — Suicide To 9/11 Discussion | by Adam Fitzgerald | Medium
"The main underlying problem for the 9/11 Truth Movement comes from it’s inability to agree on the specifics of the events that took place on September 11th 2001. Many varying degrees of belief which have embedded the various groups within itself while maintaining they are the representatives of truth itself. One such group that arrogantly proclaims such, are those who hold the belief that no hijacked planes were seen, nor did they crash anywhere on the day of 9/11. These people whether they are trolling forums for the “fun” of it, or are actual people who are stating it as the bold truth during lectures or published works do quite an enormous disservice not only to themselves but to those affected by this fantastical claim.

To even propose such a scenario is basically the “death knell” for anyone affiliated with them, jokingly or not. Many high profile Truthers regurgitate this ridiculous proposition while profiting off this baseless assertion in front of a listening audience, they include, Thierry Meyssan, Christopher Bollyn, Loose Change, Citizens Investigation Team, Rebekah Roth, Dave Von Kleist, Craig McKee, Barbara Honegger, John Lear, Morgan Reynolds, Jim Fetzer, Ace Baker, and these also include “Half-Planers” those who believe planes were hijacked and crashed into the WTC but not the Pentagon or Shanksville.

What these talking heads of the so called “Truth” Movement have done is simply invite ridicule into their own group while denigrating the deceased victims on board the hijacked planes and those who were killed by it’s impact. The actual “conspiracy” here is whether these above charlatans purport this laughable absurdity for nefarious reasons, such as profit or popularity, or that they are simply that astoundingly ignorant. The irony of the no planer/half planer scenario is this, it makes the operation of 9/11 to become vastly extensive involving more people into the planning which it turn makes it harder to keep it a secret from the public and it eliminates the Saudi/Israeli role. This would include the secrecy of all first responders (NYPD, NY EMS, NYFD, FBI, FEMA, Arlington County FD, Fort Meyer FD, Fairfax Urban Search and Rescue, NY Welders and volunteers, Shanksville FD, Central City FD, Hooversville FD, Listie FD, Virginia Medical technician Team, Ft. Belvoir Transportation Division).

Literally thousands upon thousands within the public sector had to be involved in keeping the secret involving no planes on 9/11, and they had to be either threatened with being fired, blackmail or even death. This also includes the FBI, CIA and State Dept. as well as Pentagon employees who had to inform these public servants of what's at stake. Do you see the problem now? If not, you are a victim of the above aforementioned frauds who have kept you in a state of absolute confusion. But you don’t have to be anymore, as i will simply and effortlessly outline the evidence for all 4 planes being hijacked and crashing into all 4 areas that impacted so many lives on September 111th 2001."

 

• Numerous live transmissions have to have magic overlay/composites when the target is moving!

This one is absolutely ridiculous. There were numerous live feeds going on from all the networks. It is absolutely impossible to overlay a pre-made video onto another video when it is not STATIC! It cannot be done.

If the target is moving, ie. the WTC within the shot, then so too must the frames to be overlaid. But then you would need exact coordinates in advance and the exact motion speed of the chopper relative to the WTC.

It's so utterly moronic that "ACE Baker" the plagiarist and Simon Shack can even consider this batshit.

 

• We have to involve a team to blow up the building/launch the missile/other plane whichever batshit alternative is suggested!

Now this is where the numbers involved goes through the roof! That's a whole lot of people, psychopathic demolition experts and military willing to "defend the US" by murdering thousands of fellow citizens! What bullshit.

NEVER are the numbers doing this crap resolved, NEVER do we get a full, coherent, plausible narrative and NEVER is any proof offered!

 

Oh, it get's so much worse..

Not only do 'they' have to go about recruiting dozens, or hundreds, of people to be willing to attack their own country on a risky and massive scale, you have to take into account:

- 50% of the population are not Republican.. So, at random, out of the dozens/hundreds of people 'they' ask/order to participate in this conspiracy, 'they' have to be confident not a single one of them is Democrat, Libertarian, Independent, or even a classic patriotic republican.. For any of the above would be extremely unlikely to go along with a Republican President's plan of mass conspiracy, especially on the back of half of them accusing Bush of recently 'stealing' the election from Al Gore..

- 70% of the population believe in God.. and therefore believe in a 'heaven vs hell' afterlife.. especially Republicans. So either 'they' now have to somehow know 100% of your 'hundreds' of conspirators are all Republican, and atheists, or 'they' have to deal with the fact that a huge percentage of the people 'they' ask to participate on this conspiracy are going to say "No" from the outset... now 'they' have control those people who refuse and stop them spilling the beans also.. keeping in mind that statistically for everyone 100 that say yes, you would have several hundred, even thousands, who said No...

- Of the 100% republican atheist workforce, which number in the dozens to hundreds, you have to hope all of them are psychopaths and completely subservient, and that in the months of preparation it would take to set this conspiracy up, not a single one of them has a change of mind, or spiritual awakening, and blows the entire thing wide open.. (..Imagine for a moment, a week before the attack, a single person has a change of mind, gets the Police.. they find the twin towers with hundreds of explosives wired up ready to blow.... you're literally talking about revolution over night..).

- 'They' then have to ensure that after this event, and the full repercussions/devastation of this attack become known to those who participated, that not a single one of them falls on their sword with guilt and exposes the entire thing, or a single person who was asked to participate but refused, doesn't expose the plot..

- Now, you have to imagine, all of the above was an totally acceptable risk to take, by people who are already the most rich and powerful in the entire country.. in order to... invade Afghanistan and Iraq... for reasons.... and by 'risk', I mean, if any of the above exposes this massive conspiracy, either before or after, you're suddenly staring down the barrel of Treason, the death penalty, family ruin, the ruin of the entire Republican party, and all those connected to it...

It is so ridiculously preposterous that it truly boggles the mind how anyone with any semblance of grasp on reality would find this plausible, let alone gospel truth..

Conspiracy theorists really are living in a different reality to everyone else.

 

This whole elaboration (many thanks) can also be applied to every aspect involving first responders, witnesses, the vast numbers needed to do all the coordination of this ludicrous video/cgi/batshit. It's all so utterly moronic.

 

Expanding:

• We need a team to take down light poles etc.

Ok, so theoretically one person could do this to set charges, but there lies a major problem. The poles show collision damage and no explosive burn marks. It needs to be done in such a way as to have no audible explosion sounds (nearby witnesses).

For me this is one of the more ridiculous items on the must-be-done agenda. Let's start with the why.
Bearing in mind that somewhere along the line, this had to have been arranged by somebody or a some group. They worked out the "fake" trajectory, they worked out the impact point, they worked out a descent that doesn't exceed 767 limits/speed and they decided that instead of coming in on a much more direct descent (without hugging the ground for a couple of hundred yards!) THAT is what they would do. Right there is the absolutely ludicrous nature of this item. It creates a series of things that can go wrong. Needlessly.
Much easier to come in steeper and avoid all of that.

What in hell is to be gained from this? It doesn't make it more "believable", since foolish conspiracy theorists suddenly talk about the "flimsy" wings and how this wouldn't happen, deceptively comparing airport lighting with streetlights as an example.

It's all so very, very ridiculous.

 

• We gotta dig out a crater in Shanksville and spray DNA and plane fragments everywhere.

Wow, this one is one of the more involved ones. First of all nobody can see all of this being prepared. Large pieces of the actual 767 plane buried deep in the ground, millions of pieces scattered over many miles, explosives/jet fuel set, body parts from the actual passenger/crew manifest. Cell-phone/air-phone calls need to be faked as well! This plane was tracked on radar and numerous audio recorded from the cockpit.
A quite substantial number of calls were made on this particular flight. It actually nauseates me as a human being that no-planers, half-planers can claim these calls are all faked. It really is quite sickening: CeeCee Lyles - one can only imagine the horror, the terror and the resignation she is feeling. I wonder what her relatives think of these sick people who say all this was faked.

 

• We need a team of psychopathic demolition experts - they must be invisible to others, gain access to both WTC buildings somehow and plant magic explosives that pull the exterior of the building INWARDS!

Ok folks, this one is the crux of most of the "911-truth" huffing and puffing noise. They claim 3 buildings were controlled demolition. That is an absurd number of people straight out of the gate! For the WTC buildings, plane-impact shapes need to be made that create the shape of a realistic 767 strike. This includes exterior damage ONLY in some places, bent and twisted columns forced inwards and huge holes in the exterior that CANNOT eject material opposite to the strike!

That is some impressive, bullshit fake "plane-impact" to be performed - it is obvious to anyone with logic and critical thinking that this is an absurd impossibility.

So even though we see on the collapse, the large upper-building section collapsing into the lower one, somehow this "controlled demolition" has to perfectly time each of these (every floor) collisions to "weaken" the columns etc. to "allow it" to continue collapsing. The exterior columns need to have the carefully positioned explosives hushabooms, as does the inner core - on every single floor and enough columns to weaken the building. No specifics have ever been given for where/how/when etc.

An elevator renovation has been claimed as to how it was done, but this creates a ridiculous number of problems.

• How the hell does a disguised worker, gain access to the exterior columns with nobody noticing?
• There had to have been dozens and dozens of workers to do this, that's absurd.
• How do they figure none of these people are going to be unrecognized as part of the elevator team?
• How the hell do the "evil planners" recruit any of these people?
• Do they kill the ones who refuse?
• Those recruited must know that they are committing mass-murder on an unprecedented scale - that on its own is just insane.

It's all such ridiculous batshit.

 

• Enormous "thermate-cutters" need to be installed! How big do you figure just one would need to be to cut one column?
• On the WTC there are 47 columns just on the inner core. So how many charges do you figure to rig the whole building?
• We need to coerce the emergency workers in case they see remains of one of these magic cutters, there would need to be a considerable number of them.
• We have to get them designed and built and delivered without anyone noticing.
• There can be no paper/electronic trails for any money, materials, staff payments etc. for these machines. These things would need loads of specialist parts built.
• Hopefully there are no staff wondering why they are building thousands of these huge thermite cutters? Plus none coming forward after the event and going "hang on a minute"!
• Then we need to get god knows how many people to commit to invisibly planting them, knowing they are going to murder thousands of Americans!

Just look at this latest and ridiculous section of this insane claim. We'll start with 90 odd floors on the WTC1 x 47 columns on the inner core. Hilarious. FOUR THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED of these idiotic devices just to remove the central supports. Now what about the exterior columns, well there's 244 of them! Just under TWENTY TWO THOUSAND!

And that's just one building. EVERY one of these columns needs to be taken out (according to "no-plane fizzix").

Forty to fifty thousand charges or extra big "thermate cutters" from the team of magically-employed, psychopathic, demolition experts who probably won't react well if they are Democrats and see a Republican government doing this batshittery. That would need to be an incredibly long time to setup and/or a simply enormous team to do it, INVISIBLY!

Then we have the company building and supplying thousands of these great big machines presumable for free without a single solitary piece of paper/banking etc. and not one of the staff thinking that this ridiculous number of these things is extremely odd.

Then we have all the emergency responders who somehow fail to notice a single one of these thousands of invisibly-placed-magically-acquired thermate cutters!

It's all so incredibly and impossibly insane.

 

the gullible truthers just need some amateur videos with dramatic music to make their case for them … see Ace Baker …

 

• We have to dispose / murder all the passengers, dismember some of them and scatter their DNA all over the crash site!

From WIKI: The 265 fatalities aboard the four planes included:[164]

• 87 civilians (including 11 crew members) and the five hijackers aboard American Airlines Flight 11
• 60 civilians (including 9 crew members) and the five hijackers aboard United Airlines Flight 175[165]
• 59 civilians (including 6 crew members) and the five hijackers aboard American Airlines Flight 77
• 39 civilians (including 7 crew members), a United States Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement officer,[166] and the four hijackers aboard United Airlines Flight 93.

By far the sickest one of the lot! These were regular, scheduled flights in common use. The passengers / crew / hijackers MUST all "disappear" / no longer alive. Now these people all had relatives who held memorial services, filed legal proceedings for litigation etc. One person on this sub forum has implicitly denied that there were actually ANY planes at all, which involves a whole new level of insanely ludicrous - covered HERE.

Let's attempt to rationalize this batshit. Somewhere along the line someone decided that instead of just crashing the planes, they would fake them all with "whatever"! and as a result, send the risk factor into orbit, many orders of magnitude harder to do. To begin with ALL the planes took off and were tracked by radar and ATC. Investigators of things like Black Box Data must be coerced, otherwise the game is up. All the radar operators must be in on this. So psychopathic investigators and radar operators.

So. ALL 4 planes must be mangled and scattered everywhere on four sites, god knows how they are going to do this! The pilot must somehow, willingly land somewhere else! How are they going to do that!? Then what? Explode/ set fire to it, mangle some of the parts and bodies? Then load big pieces onto a truck for each plane?

Or pre-prepare 4 alternate planes (what a crock) then dump all the parts the same way but much quicker? Prepare 200 plus burnt dead bodies and mangle them, fake the DNA analysis. Then they only need to somehow(!) get rid of the real planes and passengers. Gas them all? Install remote control and fly it out to see and crash all four? No pilot is going to take off and do that.

If any no-planer/half-planer thinks just this one point is even a considered option they are completely delusional. Believing in Big Foot would be about 100 times more convincing!

 

• Now we have to get actual passengers to fabricate(really!) their audio transcripts and phone calls!

This one is absolutely ridiculous in its conception, in particular Flight 93.
Phone Calls from Flight 93 - Flight 93 National Memorial (U.S. National Park Service) (nps.gov)
Every time you have a phone conversation, you include both the passenger and the passenger's family or crew member and ground colleague. What world of crazy do ANY phone conversations not massively complicate this? There are 35 noted and recorded and according to team "batshit-no-planes" they're all fake?

Can you actually imagine the concept/planning meeting? It's utterly ridiculous that they decided to allow 1, 2 or 3 of these to be "faked" because now the receiver of the call has to do what exactly?

Pretend their family member was on the "fake" plane and they "fake" died? Then they had a "fake" memorial service? It's just off-the-scale ridiculous. And to then allow 35 of these "fake" calls!?

Even the "half-planers" think Flight 93 is faked when it is the most absurd one of all to fake, simply because there is absolutely zero to gain and a VAST number of people involved to fake a plane that just needed to crash in the middle of the countryside!

How can anyone believe this? It makes no sense at all!

 

I don't believe the no-plane theory but I'll address the phone call issue.

Watch the video in post #8 from the 1:37:30 time mark to the 1:54:55 time mark.

(link to post )
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...with-no-planes-on-911.612050/#post-1074329117

 

Why the hell can you not put it in your own words! You haven't addressed it at all!

And here the same pathetic strawman again!?

SURELY, at some stage in the last 20 years you have read the damn reports? There were 37 calls made on flight 93, 35 of them from the seat phones!
https://www.nps.gov/flni/learn/historyculture/phone-calls-from-flight93.htm#:~:text=Thirty-five of these calls,which the call was placed.

The last two appear to be just prior to the crash at lower altitude from cell phones.

BUT, you missed the point in every way possible.

EVEN if they had all been "impossible", which they weren't, they were made, allegedly or not. Now that involves the passenger and the relative as stated above. Now we need to explain what REALLY impossible scenario, has even one passenger lying, fabricating or whatever to their ground relative. Or, the ground relative knowing their passenger relative was going to die, dead etc, would make any of this up.

How can you not get this? HOW!?
@Scott
Don't pretend you aren't a no-planer. You think there were no planes away from NY!

 

Here's my opinion of no-planers.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...aw-it-no-second-plane.610889/#post-1074239118

 

I don't give a rat's ass about your opinion. How about you respond to the rebuttal, or is that too much to ask!?

Two questions.
Was there a plane at the Pentagon?
Was there a plane at Shsnkesville?
If you answered no to either of those, see the OP and every post since! And that makes you a no-planer.

 

You know I addressed this on page #1.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...with-no-planes-on-911.612050/#post-1074328903
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...with-no-planes-on-911.612050/#post-1074329117

 

What are you doing in this thread? Your opinions are irrelevant.

You are a no planer complaining about no planers, whilst dumping a pathetic strawman up about phone calls and ignoring the reply to it!

 

The link you posted doesn't work. I think this is what you're referring to.

Phone Calls from Flight 93
https://www.nps.gov/flni/learn/historyculture/phone-calls-from-flight-93.

How do you know this isn't bogus? The viewers can read both versions and come to their own conclusions.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...o-planes-on-911.612050/page-2#post-1074363138

 

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT!

How can you not understand this!? YOU are saying it's bogus, it has to be for this idiotic claim to be true. But THERE lies the problem and you are afraid to address it or you are not using simple logic.

EVEN if they had all been "impossible", which they weren't, they were made, allegedly or not (you say not)...........that involves the passenger and the relative as stated above. Now we need to explain the REALLY impossible scenario, that has even one passenger lying, fabricating or whatever to their ground relative. Or, the ground relative knowing their passenger relative was going to die, dead etc, would make any of this up.

People known to be on the flight, called people who they knew or were related to. They testified to speaking to their relatives who subsequently died. Some recordings are available.

IT DOES NOT MATTER, if you pretend these were "bogus", why would even one single person testify about their soon to be dead relative making a phone call and make it up!?

There is NO explanation for this.

 

A plane hit the Pentagon, but it was not an airliner therefore it was not AA77

 

Pathetic bare assertion, skilfully evading two pages of problems that make utter nonsense of your batshit claim.

 

@Scott - may I have a response from you. WHY would these relatives testify to calls that were not made(according to you), prior to their loved-one being murdered!?

 

I think it's explained pretty clearly here.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...with-no-planes-on-911.612050/#post-1074329117

It's plausible that the plane had already landed at some military base and the callers were forced to make bogus calls from the ground.

 

No it isn't! I watched from your timestamp for 8 minutes and saw the usual dishonest method on videos of cherry picking statements!

Right, so this plane was diverted. HOW!?

Who was flying it and why would they do that!? If there are terrorists on board that's a ridiculous claim. If there are not, why is the damn plane diverted!?
NONE of that makes any sense. Explain how your 4hr batshit movie explains this. Same for the Pentagon plane.

"Bogus calls from the ground"? Also makes zero sense. These passengers had ample time to call their relatives and tell them they were being diverted /landed. NONE did. If there are terrorists on board again, none of that happens anyway if it is the correct flight crew, EVERYONE is calling home to say they are going to be safe.

NONE of this makes sense. Who executes all these people and burns their bodies!? And don't you dare arm-wave that away. US military would never agree to this no matter what.

All that above I just detailed is not a simple thing to carry through. Planes and passengers need disposing off. Crash sites need 757 plane parts distributed, the DNA etc. The calls and crew comms. need to be consistent.

How in any insane world does a group get together and agree this moronic strategy, hundreds of times more difficult than simply crashing the plane!