Attempting to place intangible and untestable hypothesis into a category within science is silly. To then take opinions that also cannot be tested and use it to bolster the hypothesis into accepted theory is simply very sloppy debate.
Human history is basically unsupported by scientific evidence, however this is the way how past truth can convey among humans who lack the ability to reach both the past and the future.
Actually they have been tested and these veridical ndes have been shown to happen during cardiac arrest . The aware study veridical NDE has also been shown to happen in dr Pim Van lommels lancet study . Just because we don’t yet have a mechanism doesn’t mean we can’t say that it’s most likely not being created by the brain . If these veridical ndes are happening without a brain we will need to revise the way science is done meaning it can no longer be just a physicalist view of reality . To say it isn’t testable is silly . It has been testable for the last 30 years starting with prespective studies and now going to prospective studies . So yea it is and hasn’t been testable but we don’t have the mechanism so far and yes it is science and it’s starting to be accepted into peer reviewed secular science journals
I'm sure that I as well as others would be interested in viewing the data on this testing, if you please. It sounds interesting and verification would be amazing...Nobel level amazing. Please link the data. By the way...the peer reviews are in no way flattering.
Actually by your line if reasoning we both know that you aren’t interested in viewing the data I’ve seen this kind of reasoning . This was the same kind of reasoning put out by Greta Christina in her debate with Alex tsakiris . Here is an outline on another website about lommels findings as his study is now behind a paywall. https://www.magiscenter.com/the-van...soul-heaven-from-near-death-experiences-ii-b/ And also the denture man experience from that study . https://netwerknde.nl/wp-content/uploads/jndsdentureman.pdf These veridical ndes aren’t totally uncommon in ndes but it’s only been during the last 15-20 years where NDE scientists have started conducting prospective studies to where they would interview the nder after his cardiac arrest , obviously not right after as that would violate ethical medical standards . As this article from the aware study shows the 52 year old social workers NDE was timed (through certain observations and audio cues as having happened for at least a full 3 minutes during cardiac arrest as Parnia said here in this interview on the independent . https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...y-and-near-death-experiences-9780195.html?amp One man, however, gave a “very credible” account of what was going on while doctors and nurses tried to bring him back to life – and says that he felt he was observing his resuscitation from the corner of the room. Speaking to The Telegraph about the evidence provided by a 57-year-old social worker Southampton, Dr Parnia said: “We know the brain can’t function when the heart has stopped beating. “But in this case, conscious awareness appears to have continued for up to three minutes. “The man described everything that had happened in the room, but importantly, he heard two bleeps from a machine that makes a noise at three minute intervals. So we could time how long the experienced lasted for. “He seemed very credible and everything that he said had happened to him had actually happened.” Plus we have ancillary evidence from dr Jeff long that was backed up by another scholarly study where when a patient has an NDE and in the NDE sees either his loved ones or people that he knows 96% of the time those people that he sees during his NDE are people that have already died . If this were being produced by his brain he would be seeing a more balanced mixture of dead and living people . This is what I mean when I say atheists don’t want to to really into into ndes , and I’m sure tecoyah that your going to respond in the same exact way that most atheists do. Like I said I’ve already given up in trying to dialogue with the atheists here as they’ve already made up their mind and they will try just as they did on skeptiko to resort to atheist apologetics arguments to try to fit the evidence into their cherished religion of atheism . It’s like arguing with a flat earther . If I proceed any further I’d consider myself an idiot . From now on I’m goin got post info about studies and just ignore the people who don’t really want look honestly into them .
How would you know they aren’t flattering if you are asking me for them which means you haven’t even looked at them lol. Of course they aren’t going to look Flattering to an adherent from the religion of atheism but of course your reasoning for telling us why they look unflattering is itself unflattering . We don’t need an explanation for how they are happening to be confident that they probably aren’t being caused by the brain . During cardiac arrest the brain is not functioning by all current medical science , itvis you that needs to prove to us that there is some activity after 30 seconds of cardiac arrest . The burden of proof is in you tecoyah. So please share your info that the brain is functioning during cardiac arrest ? This will be new earth shattering info
Actually it wouldn’t be Nobel level amazing because we need a fully objective object to be verified because we currently live in a physicalist paradigm which is why most university level educated people don’t even know about these tests .the one test that could break this paradigm is aware 2 where they will be installing poles with tablets hung at the top of the poles facing the ceiling . If someone sees the image it’s bye bye atheism . The folks at the aware of aware blog believe he may already have at least 1 hit from that study . Tecoyah if you’ve never prayed please pray to your god of non existence that Parnia doesn’t have a hit but his sudden about face from sceptic to proponent doesn’t bode well for you guys But when an oxford educated professor of neuro philosophy who teaches at one of the most prestigious medical university’s in the world has the courage to debate this she got destroyed so badly that she hung up the phone 3 times in her interviewer This is exactly why atheists are absolutely frightened by ndes
I have read the synopsis and browsed the initial paper, I simply requested YOU provide data to back your post like everyone else does in a debate forum.
Well that is a suitably stupid assertion. But why not make a fool of yourself and actually demonstrate any evidence that actual factual truth is conveyed by stories.
Funny how none of that babble actually presents data or actual evidence! Nobody has actually been able do far to present anything involving actual facts or data to support the nonsense presented. Could it be because there isn"t any?
Many studies have been done on what happens to the brain during oxygen deprivation and other aspects but, as this discussion is clearly upsetting you I think it best to end it. Have A Nice Day
Tecoyah your trying to get away from the evidence wink wink Again your ignoring many key facts that blow your assertion out of the water . In cardiac arrest it really doesn’t matter if the brain has oxygen or not because the brain is simply not functioning . Now tecoyah show us just one oxygen deprivation study that has ever brought back veridical perception . We can start with the air force gforce oxygen deprivation tests . I’ll make this assertion right now and say I know of no oxygen deprivation study that has ever brought back veridical perception . Now we both know why you want to leave this dialogue tecoyah wink wink But like I said if your happy with being an atheist it’s a free country but don’t expect the rest of us rational folks to just believe a fairy tale because someone says so .
Could it be that what I’m presently is peer reviewed in 2 Major science journals that you didn’t bother verifying??? And the fact that both studies are prospective studies . Jester did you think I was kidding when I said I have studied this subject for 9years ??? Why not just humble yourself and be honest and admit that you don’t want any of this to be true ? Intellectual honesty is liberating my friend Besides we have one of the 4 horsemen of atheism Sam Harris already admitting that if someone sees the digital image in the ongoing aware 2 he would call that impressive and it might cause him to shift his worldview I can’t wait to see Sam Harris in church and tell him “”god bless you dr Harris “” Hmmm that has a nice ring to it Remember the words of your fellow atheist john beloff begging his fellow atheists to just admit that the afterlife evidence is good and believe it and try to find a naturalistic explanation for it . He was a wise atheist
I have posted the data . The veridical NDE is data . Are you seriously kidding me here . These are the highlight data that the study brings. <Rule 2/3>
I’m done posting here for a while as it seems someone got their atheistic panties in a bunch and reported me. I wonder is this forum owned by twitter or Facebook ? Wink wink
As a general rule, the Mods only act on reports when they are valid....perhaps a little less sensitivity would help.
That’s exactly what the kids of Twitter and Facebook said I agree with your statement that perhaps a little less sensitivity would help but not in the way you mean . Anyways I’ve accomplished my mission here as my posts will be seen by the true free thinkers such as the agnostics , seekers and fence sitters . Besides I’m having fun with a certain favorite group of mine on YouTube Mission accomplished Wink wink
You all keep pretending that near death or near brain death are the same as the actual thing. The difference should not be that hard to understand. If you come back you haven't really been there. The fact is simple, no person has ever actually returned from the dead and no person has come back from true brain death. These are just facts. Ignoring them is just wishful thinking.
Well then demonstrate them i have already proven how so many of them are faked. But go ahead and post you evidence. Always fun to explain how the frauds work.
In other words all we can do is suspend our critical thinking. Forget the reality that dead is dead. Sure, there is a magic man in the sky just waiting for you.
Why don't you explain just what exactly has been verified about NDEs that would have any relevence to what would happen after actual death. And no actual death is not the heart stopping for a few minutes or measurable brain function not occuring for a minute or two. Actual death is when the heart does not restart and all signs of brain activity stop for an extended period.
