The Bible

Are you saying that the Bible isn't a fairy tale? Do you think the Koran is true like you think the Bible is? Talking snakes, talking donkeys, six winged angels, unicorns, zombies, etc.

 

Belief and faith in someone are the same. Belief that someone exists is completely different.

Besides you can't have faith in CHRIST - Christ is a title. If you have faith in Christ then which Christ is it? There are several chosen/anointed ones in the OT as well.

 

According to Jesus "mere faith that Christ will save you" will not save you - works - following the teachings of Jesus is required.

The Jesus depicted in Matt/Mark never states that one is saved by having faith that Jesus will save you.

 

really.. why are you here?

 

Who was that for?

 

Where does Jesus say this?

Correct, but I just don't see why that is a problem.

 

The only Christ that matters in the Christian faith.

 

For the 10th time - "Only the one who does the Will of the Father" - " not the hearing but the doing" Asking this same question - over and over and over - is not going to change the answer.

Not only does the Jesus of Matt/Mark never say or imply "faith alone - have faith that you will be saved and you will be saved"

Not only does Jesus refer to those who obviously have faith ( those calling "Lord Lord" and those prophesying in the name of Jesus and faith healing in the name of Jesus) as not necessarily making it into heaven.

Not only does he set the bar as "more righteous than the Pharisees" and then goes on to explain what being righteous entails - what the "will of the Father" entails

He specifically defines "the Will of the Father" as "works" - following the teachings of Jesus.

He gives one simple rule - which I gave you previously. Although the rule sounds simple on the surface it is very deep and complex.
Jesus puts emphasis on this rule.. emphasis like no other - sans perhaps "Love God".

Jesus says the entire law and the prophets are summed up in this rule. What part of "This rule is really important" is not getting through to you ? Jesus then restates this rule numerous times ... for those such as yourself who did not get it the first time.

Unfortunately - much of Christianity does not emphasize this rule. Growing up in a very religious home - going to Church not only every Sunday but 3 times in a week during Easter and Xmas - and I never heard this rule being emphasized or its meaning explained.

The Minister was a close relative and through the years I would be in the company of not only this person at Family functions but other Ministers. I engaged in many theological discussions over the years. You might be surprised to hear that not all Ministers believe in the Trinity - at least not as per doctrine - and we are talking Lutheran Ministers here - you know .. that Luther Fellow. To become a Minister in the Lutheran Church you have to do 8 years in the Seminary. You have to learn Latin, Greek and Hebrew = these dudes are smart and able to think for themselves. They are not automatons.

One thing I can tell you is that the doctrine these fellows preach (at least some) and what they actually believe is not the same. Some follow more closely than others but some deviate a lot.

You are way to rooted in "Dogma" and do way too little thinking for yourself. One of the first things I realized early on was the dogma from one denomination to another varied quite substantially. When you get to the extremes - such as the Fundamentalists, dogma varies a lot. Some go as far as to forbid drinking alcohol and dancing. Never could figure out what would get into someone to change the most ancient and important ritual - the one where you eat flesh of the God and drink the God's blood - changing the wine to grape juice. This is idiocy.

I once asked a Fundamentalist acquaintance of mine about this. His response was that the wine at the wedding was grape juice. Of course this is complete nonsense but - I was prepared . I then pointed him to Deuteronomy 14 which is talking about Tithing.

I then explained that the Babylonians were making Beer in 5000 BC and that when you read "wine" it means "wine".

Anyway. I always liked this passage. Having a big drunken festival in celebration of God .. kind of puts a different spin on Religion now doesn't it.

I digress - had a bit of the spirit myself this eve - So then !!! If you do not want someone doing nasty things do you then, do not do these things to others - Treat others as you would like to be treated. If you do not want others judging you .. then don't judge others - Deal with your own BS before trying to call out someone else on theirs - love your neighbor as yourself and - let Ye who is without sin cast the first rock.

All the rest is commentary - go and learn.

 

You keep referring to the Jesus of Mark but you only quote from Matthew. What is it about the Jesus of Mark that makes you think that it is such a contradiction?

 

It is most clear that it means that the works of those that call "Lord Lord" are not enough.

What do you think the significance is of being more righteous than the Pharisees?

When did I say that it isn't important?

Do they think for themselves in the same way that you think for yourself?

Right, so they're outright frauds. That's great.

 

Wyrd

 

But without the other 'Christs' there would be no Christianity. If you believe the David story, then he was anointed by Samuel and his son Solomon was anointed by Zadok the High Priest. And through them supposedly comes Christianity, Matthew and Mark use prophecies that are clearly related to, and borne out, in Israels ancient OT history..

 

You keep talking over my posts and bringing up irrelevant nonsense in an effort to avoid the "bad thoughts". I understand.

Matt "is" Mark sans a few passages that the author of Matt thought were derogatory to Jesus or the Disciples.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10057a.htm

The above is taken out of the "Catholic Encyclopedia" - not from some anti Christian website.

This is one of the numerous examples of artistic license (aka - Pious Fraud) in the Bible. As Christianity evolves so does Christian doctrine and Dogma. The Authors of the various writings in the Bible each have a different dogma as they are writing in either different time periods or from a different perspective.

The story we get is then this persons "Story about what happened" - which is not the same as "what happened". Its like when you have two witnesses to a car crash but their stories contradict one another in some ways.

There is a difference between "what happened" and the story one makes up about "what happened". The Key distinction here is that humans live their lives on the basis of "the Story" and not necessarily on the basis of "what happened".

The various Bible authors all have different stories about "what happened" - these stories are influenced by the Christian Dogma of the day and the Story that the author wants to tell - and they are not above "Pious Fraud" to tell that Story - in fact it was quite acceptable back in the day (justified on the basis of saving one's soul)

 

Agreed - it is clear that works are required. What is also abundantly clear is not all those who "have faith in Jesus" make it.

It has huge significance - as said to you previously - Jesus sets the bar for entrance quite low. Even you might make it despite your hard headed nature and strong desire to avoid and not listen to the teachings of Jesus

If this rule was important to you- you would have known of the significance of this rule prior to me telling you about it.

In addition "Sola Fide" - If one is saved merely by having faith - and there is no need for works - the rules pertaining to works are not that important to one's salvation.

Third - if you thought the Golden Rule was important (as in very important as opposed to just another rule) you would have been able to answer your question for yourself.

To some degree they did - some more some less. The term "outright frauds" would not apply to all. It would however apply to the person who has implanted the "thought stopping techniques" in your mind.

 

OMG. it's not real, get over it.

 

What isn't?

 

Hetro sex is why we are here.

 

To kill whales.

 

Why wouldn't it be real? IF you have a being capable of creating the universe, then ANY of the events in the Bible should be simple to do.

 

Really? I'll answer for you, you are here to troll Christians. It's evil.

 

Then it should be easy for this being to save millions of innocent children suffering and dying in wartorn countries through no fault of their own. To control the earth so tragedies caused by his creation of an unstable world don't happen.
If anything is evil it's standing/sitting on a throne watching the innocent children starve to death, Or being bombed to death. Standing by and watching is tantamount to aiding and abetting - as in the OT.
It seems that only caring human beings do what they can to help - and, sadly, that's very little.
And don't come up with the old 'the sins of the parents' malarky. Most of these people just want to live in peace. They've started no war.

 

Oh, most Christians are just fine.
It's the looney ones that are off the wall.

 

This is a religious section of the forum and I discuss religion with other posters.

Do you know what the Ten Commandments are and how many times Moses went up and down the mountain lugging the stone tablets after forty days and nights without food and water?

According to the fairy tale who were the last people in the Old Testament who saw Jealous?

When the wise men visited baby Jesus which of the Ten Commandments does that illustrate?

According to the fairy tale on Judgment Day how will you be judged?

Who will judge the twelve tribes of Israel on Judgment Day?

When were people first called Christians?

 

This is probably the most fascinating religious video, great for believer or not.
I firmly believe this is where the Moses story came from, and
the observer can see the writing is pictorial, a predecessor to a written language, ie. Hebrew.

 

It is most clear that it means that works are not enough for anyone.

Do you think that Jesus required the law to be followed?

What makes you think that I didn't know the significance of it prior to our discussion? You didn't TELL me anything.

Again, works will come from being saved by having faith.

Which question? I think I've asked more than one.

They believe one thing, but express another, and you don't think that "outright frauds" would apply? Surely you can't be serious! How would it NOT apply?