The German language united developed countries

The German language united developed countries
do you agree
this language is the main one in Europe
European Central Bank in Germany
the French have euros

 

I prefer English

 

English for everyone
Ukrainians should learn German instead of Russian
then Ukraine will win the war

 

...how d'ya figure that.....?

 

It'd be more of a long term strategy in a 'culture war'. There is precedent. For example, there was a vote held early in US history on what would be the official language. It came down to English vs German were tied. One representative was late due to a storm and he was going to vote German. Without his vote, we went with English. Its been suggested if the US had spoken German, we would've sided with Germany in WW1, probably changing the outcome of the war and thus all of world history thereafter. No treaty of Versalles, no Communist Russia, no Nazis, no WW2 and no cold war.

Its just a theory of course. Who can say for sure. Obviously there were other factors in WW1, but a century of common language would have surely altered international relationships and cultural influence to some degree.

 

really...wow...didn't know that! Isn't it odd...funny...weird...whatever....how a just a small thing have such fundamental consequences...

 

jeezuz....maybe I should learn to speak English.........

 

And this was the point the US threw away civilization and became McDonalds with lousy beer. Or is it Kentucky Schreit Ficken.
I always mix that up.

Joking.

 

Learn German, first step out of the cave and I would have hope for you. Slight hope, mind you.

 

Reversing WW1 and Versailles likely wouldve avoided Nazism and perhaps Sovietism, but Germany still would've likely been a Prussian-dominant society, and thus still wouldve likely become a fascist state. And without Hitler, Germany might've actually succeeded in taking over the world for fascism. The point being, the world would be very different, but not necessarily better.

 

....already did that........possibly better than my English based on that last post.....

 

You are very wrong, 1848 could have succeeded and unification would have looked different.

 

That is a misconception of Prussia. Prussia was a modern and multiethnic state, the military was dominant because Prussia, a small country, had to be able to defend itself in the ongoing and never ending European wars.

The 30 years war (Dreißigjähriger Krieg - 1618 to 164 devastated large areas of Prussia with a population loss of up to 90% in some areas and therefore it welcomed religious refugees from other countries, mainly French and Austrian Protestants. Being a Prussian wasn’t defined by a certain religion or nationality but by the positive commitment to the state. That changed after the German unification in 1871 and nationalism took over.

Despite having a capable military Prussia didn’t go to war often or easily. Friedrich-Wilhelm I., known as the Soldier King, formed the modern Prussian army and the Prussian bureaucracy but never used his army.

Compared to other important European countries Prussia was a relative peaceful country but got a bad reputation. Louis XIV of France covered Europe in blood and impoverished his people but he has a good reputation because he wore extravagant clothings and built nice palaces.

 

By 'fascism', I don't mean military expansionism or ethnocentrism. I'm talking about Prussian society and specifically the education system that both tended to focus on authoritative social conformity and authoritative social collectivism. That's what 'fascism' really is at its core. The militarism and ethnocentrism of the Nazis were just their version of fascism. Rather than fascism itself, that was just what they used fascism to center their society around.

 

No, Germany was never a Prussian society. Actually the opposite. It had a very strong democratic movement, which the ruling upper classes had a hard time to control. Even Bismarck feared them, they were one of the reasons for his social reforms.

You have the education system wrong. Quiet a few of the German States started mandatory education systems before the 1870 unification.
In the new industrial time, they needed workers who could read, write and do the 4 simple math in order to compete on the international. market. Prussia was not one of them. Bismarck understood that need for the united Germany now competing against France and England.
Fascism happened far later, in the mid 1920, by a small group and was never really part of German culture. Strangely it happened during Germany's first true Republic, with a democratic government.

 

There is a lot of evidence to the contrary, that Prussia was a very heavy political and cultural influence in Germany.
Influence of Prussian Nationalism - Germany before World War One, 1890-1914 - AQA - GCSE History Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize
and
Unification of Germany - Wikipedia
"The empire was forged not as the result of the outpouring of nationalist feeling from the masses but through traditional cabinet diplomacy and agreement by the leaders of the states in the North German Confederation, led by Prussia, with the hereditary rulers of Bavaria, Baden, Hesse-Darmstadt, and Württemberg. Prussia, occupying more than three-fifths of the area of Germany and having approximately three-fifths of the population, remained the dominant force in the nation until the empire’s demise at the end of another war in 1918."

By 'fascism', I don't mean military expansionism or ethnocentrism. I'm talking about Prussian society and specifically the education system that both tended to focus on authoritative social conformity and authoritative social collectivism. That's what 'fascism' really is at its core. The militarism and ethnocentrism of the Nazis were just their version of fascism. Rather than fascism itself, that was just what they used fascism to center their society around.

Prussian model of schooling - supermemo.guru
"Prussian school model or Prussian education system is a model of schooling that dates back to Martin Luther and Frederick the Great of Prussia (see: Education: Free and Compulsory). The system became very popular worldwide and survives to this day in various forms. In this book, the term is used in pejorative.

The central design flaw of the Prussian system is the coherence-interference problem, which stems from the fact that the same piece of knowledge can have a different effect on different students. One child may add to the body of coherent knowledge. Another child will suffer from knowledge interference. For this reason, Prussian model is a notorious violator of the Fundamental law of learning, which says that learning needs to be self-directed and pleasurable. See: Inherent problems of classroom schooling.

Today, the education system requires reform, and when the reform is not forthcoming, the Prussian model is associated with discipline, obedience, subservience, conformity, grading, rigid curriculum, mindless memorization, suppression of creativity, suppression of intelligence, and other negative aspects of modern schooling. For those reasons, the term is often used interchangeably with the factory model of schooling.

The opposite of the Prussian system are democratic schools, unschooling, free learning, Finnish model, Montessori schools, and more."

 

Oh boy, supermemo.
The education system of Germany including Prussia was years ahead of any country, alot of countries adopted it.
It is neither restrictive nor limiting creativity. Germany became a engineering, science, social science and art super power, because of the system.
Its a 4 tier education system with the first trained certified and government employed teachers.
Light years ahead of everybody in the world of its time..
Its goal was, still is, to produce a world open minded people, well educated in reading writing, math, science, philosophy and art.
It worked so well, that the US adapted it. It took the UK and France nearly 40 years to catch up to it.

Despite your Prusia, German Empire was for its time a surprisingly progressive country.

It is absolute not correct, that unification was done without the people. You need to read up on 1848, it was the people who demanded a unification, but as a democratic country, with a king.

Look at what Bismarck did, all his social programs, from Health to unemployment to retirement, those were first in the world and their foundations were so well thought out, that they survived 2 WW and are still in service today and actually doing rather well.
Bismarck just signed the papers, it was his professional stuff who developed those programs, educated by what you call the Prussian Education system, which should have made such fine and long lasting thinking impossible.
The ideas of those people, late 1800, are so progressive, that they have no chance in the US, even today.

Just think about it, if the US would be speaking German, it would probably have a functioning Health Social Security and retirement system and a good school system and would not be mired in the British System, which is a failure.

For your information I am German, grew up with "your Prussian" school system, it gave me a rather brought education, I speak 4 languages, allowed me the dream and fantasy to go abroad and go my own way. I do sculptures, had till I retired 2 businesses

Your view of Germany is rather strange.

 

I don't have anything against Germany. The 'Prussian model' did indeed revolutionize and proliferate modern education. But it also was instrumental in indoctrinating people into things like eugenics. But Germany didn't create eugenics, rather the British created it, Americans adopted it and pushed it on Germany along with some fat helpings of money to create the Nazis. I'm not trying to place any blame here.

I grew up in the 'Prussian model' as well. Prolly everyone on this forum did. Standardized education seems to work well for the majority ...but it leaves a large minority uneducated, because there's a lot of people who simply can't learn that way and the structured regimentation doesn't leave any room for people who are more 'hands on' in their learning ability. It is an authoritarian system at its core, designed to cater to learning by indoctrination rather than critical thinking or application. In that way, it was instrumental in proliferating fascism in the same way that its being used to proliferate authoritarian collectivism today (not that there is much difference between the two...). Those left behind by the education system designed for others are essentially stuck into a lower 'class', to work the low-wage high-labor jobs so the students who can succeed in the 'Prussian model' can benefit from memorizing and reciting their facts. It was a good system 100 years ago, because it was pretty much the only system. There's much better systems now, that not only allow for more diversity of thought and learning styles, but also leave less people 'behind' and also arent as useful in indoctrinating people into authoritarian collectivism, and they're not as efficient (require more labor by educators) so governments and corporations tend to not like those alternative systems.

 

I know that you do not have anything against Germany, but your view is rather limited.

Yes the US school system indoctrinates. Swear the allegiants, Fahneneid, school prayers, singing of the anthem, religious schools, home schooling. Look at domestic and international history. I used to be a weekly guest speaker in our High School, because I brought a different understanding of history and social matters into the class room. I was surprised how little those 10th graders understood about Europe, EU, why this why that. They had no idea about Europe. NAZIs, oh well yes. They were shocked when I told them that my father had been a officer in the Wehrmacht.
" your father was a NAZI? "
It ended with the Iraq war, because I disagreed, did not wave the flag. I was told to stay away and the teacher was fired within 4 weeks.

I understand your stand point. In Germany the system is constantly approved changed to bring everybody along, but it is still the same system, mandatory, based on testing, based on quality output. Even private schools have to adhere to government set standards, even schools run by religious groups, ne exemptions, they have to be certified and have to teach the preset standards, on top of it what ever they want.
That is the Prussian school system, ever evolving, but setting standards of what has to be taught, as a minimum.
In the US, local school boards decide what should be taught, which books can be part of it, which not. The most powerful and riches decide which school books will be bought and printed.
The local Higgs decide that, not professionals. Its all about local politics in the US, indoctrination.
The US adopted the System but made a farce of it, a joke, were in the end money decides, how far a young person can go.
Even then if they can go all the way, they end up with a huge financial burden.

Not in the country which created the system, because the basic idea was education for free, all the way, including University.
I am a Journey Man and a Mater in my profession. The journey man was for free, I was even paid, lousy, but better than having to pay for that education, no High School. But Journey Man allowed me, with no cost for me, to go back to school and get my High School degree. By then I was in the military and they had to give me the time of, to go to school.
You are talking about a pressure cooker, because now I had my NCO riding my sorry arse, plus my father, plus my girl friend, plus my fellow soldiers, with which I lived.
My mandatory time in the military ended in the same month of my High School Diploma test. Did we get drunk when my result came in, monumental, epic.
I had already applied for a special force unit, but a High School Diploma was mandatory, before they put you through the wringer of hell. Because if you got through hell, you had to go to college on the side of the hell we considered normal live.

It is the versatility this system allows, with its solid foundation of the requirement of results.
In the end the student has to make a effort to produce the result.

I am a 100% disalectic, I see everything up side down and from right to left. A learning disability which was hardly know and not excepted in Germany till the early 70s, thats why I started my Journey Man with 16, barely made middle school, they waved me through so to speak. But that is the beauty of the system, it is allowed to develop, which it always has and end up to give people like me, considered a screw up, idiot a second chance. Within 2 years, when I was 18, I had a second chance.
Yes, it has rigid standards, but they are a plus, because you actually have to make an effort, no money for nothing and chicks for free.
Which expresses real live and you better learn that early.

My humble opinion that is todays problem, money for nothing and chicks for free, especially in the US school system, they wave them through all the way and then it gets rough.
Live is competition, all the way and school has to teach you that, sucks, big time

 

how many could actually point to a European country on a map..?

seriously...I didn't know that...it sounds chaotic...?

 

It is rather wild.
My county, around 30,000, has 3 school districts, plus 5 charter schools and I think 8 schools run by churches and few 1000 home schoolers, that means 13 school boards and the 1000 homies.
Financing of the districts comes from a levy on property taxes, how much is decided by the voters..

Sometimes those school boarder meetings are great entertainment, they are open to the public and when parents and board go after each other, it gets rather lively. In my county no meeting without the cops being around.

 

...that's absurd.......parent evenings with police attending!!!!????

...what's a charter school...is that a private school?

So basically there is no standard curriculum? I guess it doesn't really matter but how do you judge the quality of a school or teacher? I mean here in England (Scotland's slightly different) there is a standard UK wide curriculum and standard exams both ordinary and higher grade (O levels and A levels) and all schools are inspected by OFSTED point being you can judge any school/teacher in the country as a comparison is on an apples to apples basis so to speak. US sounds like it's make it up as you go along....???

 

How to explain charter schools. I always call them school clubs, founded by parents, who are unhappy with the local offerings.
They need a charter, which explains their goals, so to speak a manual " how to screw up your child's education ", any wako schooling theory is welcome. But sometimes charters are founded because the local mini school closes, no money and then kids have to travel for miles and miles.
If the State excepts the charter/by laws, they are in business and receive money from the County property tax Levy. But most depend on donations and once the infighting in the club starts, well you know.........................

Colorado has state wide tests for all grades. But they are meant to evaluate the schools performance, but there is no unified end of the year test, or High School end test or what ever. Its up to the district.
Not as I am used, I had for my middle school diploma a State Standard testing procedure.
In the county, you get your High School diploma, by being present a minimum of hours. It does not matter if you can read, write or do math or what the heck, might not be able to go to college or find a job, but who cares.

No unified system, the spirit of freedom rules the show.

As you know I am German. It was all about performance. The end of a school years was tests, you failed, you did not advance, you had to do the grade again. You could balance your scoring sheet, the average counted. We had 1-6, 1= excellence and 6 how bad can it get. All classes combined had to produce a 4.5, to advance.
I was a screw up in school, had to repeat once and barely made my Middle School Diploma, with 4.3. Which meant find a job and become a Journey Man.
That was a wake up call for me, get serious, because now I played in the world of adults.

But back, the school system in the US is a serious screw up, a fooking mess.

 

We kindda have the same here, it's just that they're private schools with private teachers but their pupils still have to pass the various assessment stages of the national curriculum and pass the same tests as the state schools if the kids want to get into college/university or get a job! It's kind of the reverse here though, as these schools tend to be very small and very high achieving...we have one down the road and the kids all have smart uniforms and unlike the state schools actually look smart and well turned out in them! There's a long waiting list to get in and there results are amazing. Expensive though.
The point being I suppose that you can't just form a school and then teach any old crap you want to the kids.

....funny you should say that....I remember back in my Germany days there were still a few young lads in their black suits and top hats (I think it was top hats??) on their "Wanderung"...pretty sure that's totally died out now...

 

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You can still see them but it is a rather rare thing. A few years ago I stopped my car for a hitchhiker, I don‘t do that normally but for a Zimmermannsgeselle ( carpenter) in his traditionally suit, with a black hat, it was fine.