Great story. But, it does not address my statement. We have lots of immigration lines - NOT just one!! The catch is who can get into them. America is pickey about who we accept. If you are a doctor, an engineer, have close family who are US citizens, etc., then we have a line of some sort for you, along with rules for that specific line. But, there is NO line for hourly labor from the Americas - other than a small exception for qualified farm labor that may still exist. We even have a "diversity" line where we take those from nations that are poorly represented in our demographics. But, we have decided gor YEARS that we already have plenty of representation from the Americas.
Sure there is the H2B is a non-ag and a low skilled visa, the H1B is a semi-skilled visa. You still haven't answered my question about why we need hourly workers when ag is the only field complaining about lack of workers. The only country's in the Americas denied the DV are Brazil, Columbia, Ecuador, Mexico, and El Salvador. 5 out of about 35 countries are denied for specific reasons.
A "diversity" immigration visa. Only in a cultural-Marxism society. You are 100% correct we do have a diversity visa to further the internationalist socialist political agenda of changing the face of America. I have to give you a "like" for being more knowledgeable than most since I bet 90% on this forum were unaware of the liberals diversity visa. There's more behind the diversity visa, Congress set a number on how many diversity visas could be issued every year and Obama again got caught breaking the law and has issued twice as many visas that Congress authorized. Isn't that a high crime ? Who can't get in the immigration lines ? Since the 1965 Immigration Act, white Northern Europeans. Before 1965 America's immigration policies were always was what was best for America, not what was best for the immigrant or one political party. Before 1965 America's immigration laws were written by progressives, same with our federal drug laws and it was progressives who wrote the " Volstead Act" aka prohibition. Don't confuse true American progressives with those radical leftist Marxist and internationalist socialist who hide behind the progressive label today. Before the Marxist hijacked the progressive label during the 1970's and 80's progressives were found in both the Democrat and Republican party and they would never bad mouth America, most were nationalist socialist. In the early 1900s immigration increasingly came under the scrutiny of Progressive reformers. Progressives prided themselves on their applications of emerging social sciences and scientific management techniques, believing that through science, societies ills could be cured. Adhering to the doctrine of pragmatism, which held that the meaning and truth of all concepts and phenomena were determined by their practical consequences, Progressives launched studies on pressing contemporary issues including trusts, prostitution, and immigration. It fell to the Progressive examination of the movement of people to American shores. The above is an excellent read. You find out who made the best Americans who didn't. Guess what ? The English didn't even make the top five.
Numbers USA disagrees with many of your statements. Take a minute to check out their argument, and particularly if you are a border state, and you will see many of these statements to be very real facts. https://www.numbersusa.org/numbers/environment
H2B is a program for qualifying US employers to hire from outside the US. That is not a line for those in other countries. Whether there are complaints or not is a poor measure of need, as labor IS being supplied by those here without documentation and large numbers of employers are constantly looking for cheap, discardable labor. Agriculture has a tough time hiring adequate cheap labor to meet our low food prices. That is a fairly exceptional category. I hadn't noticed that the allocations for the Americas are now not all zero. They had been zero for years. But, I'll still point out that it is not a line - it is a lottery. Thus, no person in a country that has a DV allocation can think they are moving forward as time passes. All they are doing is sitting there hoping to hit the yearly lottery. And, the numbers are fabulously against that as the allocations are small and the number of applicants is huge.
I'm not going to read through your screed that fails to document where it gets its info and how it calculates its claims. If you have a particular point, then state it - and if possible show some support for it.
What you just stated doesn't even make sense. The wannabe worker applies for the visa outside the US. The employer simply files for a certificate inside the US showing that he needs H2B workers, then DoL matches the worker to the employer. Our unemployment rate says quite the opposite. Cheap discardable labor? SO WHAT, the employer should be SOL. You still haven't justified any need for bringing in hourly labor. So far you've given excuses. They have not been zero for years. Yes the DV is a lottery, nobody said the DV was a line. That doesn't change the fact that there are numerous other visas they can apply for to put themselves into that line.
That's still not even slightly a line. That's important, as someone can sit in some foreign country forever and get no closer to employment - even the temporary employment available through this system. Cheap discardable labor is VERY hard for US citizens to compete with. The demand for cheap labor is there because of the fact that we are a free market capitalist nation. I'm for restricting employment - I've stated that more than once. You're trying to argue as if I'm not. But, you can not deny that there are large numbers of jobs being filled cheaply by individuals who have no papers. My point with the DV program WAS that it is not a line. People say "get in line". I said "There is no line." The fact that there is some allocation really doesn't change much, as those sitting in Mexico (for example) have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the lottery, and they can be in the lottery pool for years (requiring yearly application) and still be no closer to employment than they were the first year they applied. Hourly wage earners in other countries don't have a line. At most, they have a lottery. "Discardable" is meaningful, as it says a lot about the circumstances in which those few who actually win the lottery will be living. We should care about that, as we are fostering communities of those who are discardable in that fashion.
A line is something you get in and wait. That is exactly what the H visas do, you apply in line and wait until they call your number. There are no rights or guarantees to being able to enter the US, everybody waits outside to enter. The only field that is hard to compete in is Ag due to the fact that the work is seasonal and a mere few weeks here and a few weeks there. Nothing is cheap, illegals in the fields can make as mus as $20 + per hour. Hell, the median income of an illegal household is $35K per year, that's above the poverty line for a family of 6. What do you think is "cheap" that they work for? Jobs are being filled by illegals, cheaply is subjective. The median household income of an illegal family is $35K, that's above the poverty line for a family of 6. If they don't contribute to society more than they take, who really is getting shorted? Many economists, to include the Progressive Paul Krugman claim that those that benefit from illegals are the employers and the illegals themselves, society gets stuck with the bill. You initially brought up the DV, which is but one type of visa and had nothing to do with the topic. You even claimed it was a line. Sure they do, there are a number of visas they can apply for. They even have non-immigrant visas for nanny's, the B1. http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/general/all-visa-categories.html The DV lottery is for an immigration visa to come here on a permanent basis, has nothing to do with hourly workers and non-immigrants. Its basically giving the person a Green Card immediately.
The numbers are verified throughout the read. If you don't care about the numbers than you obviously have your mind made up that our borders don't matter, OUR Country is not OUR Country, and your citizenry of the USA doesn't mean all that much to you. If you like the southern neighbors that much, please, by all means, break into their Country and demand from them as the illegals demand from us. My best guess is, you won't...You'll just keep yelling from the cheap seats "let 'em all in. It didn't affect me!" Pffffff
No because crime is a legal word that means punishment for an action. Simply put, they're not being punished. They're simply being evicted. Think of it like this, who's being harmed? An individual or society? A crime harms society while if it's an individual it would be a civil case. Administrative court is a type of civil court. Civil simply means there will be no punishment. That's moving the goal post now. We're not talking about EWI we're talking unlawful presence.
And? If his mother had not given birth to him then this situation never would have happened either. Should all mothers no longer be able to have children? If a person does something because it's part of who they are, where doesn't matter. It will happen no matter what. If rape is caused by a need to feel control then it will happen regardless of where it is. I don't have to do that. I just have to show that this is a more likely number. "Over all, the officials said, about 40 percent of the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States came on legal visas and overstayed." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/us/12visa.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 That was from 2009. "Nearly half the twelve million people illegally in the country didn't cross the desert or pay a smuggler. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, they crossed legally at a port of entry just like this one at Douglas, Arizona." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5485917 So now we can see that there is a trend going towards 57%. That means my number is a lot closer to what's actually going on.
Do you see what you're doing? You're saying that it's neither criminal nor civil but then saying that it's a criminal case. While the government can be bringing up the charges, it doesn't automatically make it a criminal case. If the Federal government sued a state government because they weren't following a specific regulation, would the state be committing a crime? No, it's a civil trial because they're not actually going to be punished persay, rather just told to follow the law. Civil or criminal refers to punishment, if it will happen or not. A little irrelevant at this point in the game. We're not talking about EWI, we're talking about unlawful presence. A big difference right there.
Deportation is punishment for the infraction of being here illegally or being here in violation of immigration law, i.e. visa overstay. Your little blog link is incorrect about its whole premise. In fact I think someone in her comments eludes to The author of that link is nothing more than an advocate. She knows nothing of law. Here it is from an actual Judge that states that deportation is a punishment. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/judge-h-lee-sarokin/debunking-the-myth-that-d_b_321329.html and from the Scheidemann case https://casetext.com/case/scheidemann-v-imm-naturalization-service If it were a civil court it would not be the Federal Govt prosecuting the defendant. There is a prosecution taking place, which makes it a type of criminal court. Ask any lawyer, or in your case a law professor at your school. Immigration Court doles out punishment, i.e. deportation, fines and/or jail time. Do EWI's not also have unlawful presence? A Visa Overstay can also become illegally here once they have an order of deportation against them. Unlawful presence still has a punishment of deportation and can be denied legal re-entry for 3 years to life depending on the amount of time they were out-of-status.
No, a line is a line. A lottery is not a line. When you buy a lottery ticket, you are NOT getting in line for winning the lottery. And, our visa system relies on a lottery that individuals must reapply for each year. You're using communist measures, not free market measures. Their wages are suppressed by the very fact that they are working outside of our system of free market capitalism. The fact that they are likely consuming more resources is a RESULT of that. No, I claimed the DV system is NOT A LINE - it is a lottery where applicants must apply for each lottery, without any deference to those who have applied before. It's like our own state lotteries - winners must apply and nobody cares if they applied in some past lottery. (It is NOT like our state lotteries in that you may apply for a DV only once per year.) Those who are here on a permanent basis (without papers) did not do so in order to work for a few months and leave. They needed a JOB, not temporary employment. They also needed hope. They were ready to sacrifice hugely in order to provide a better start for their children. And, do NOT get confused - I'm for stronger enforcement, but we have to do better at understanding what's going on, or we will keep missing on this issue.
That's the dumbest argument you could make. Psychological BS. Its not all because its a part of who they are. , your first 57% claim came from 2003, hell in 2009 it was claimed to be 40% looks to me as the number is declining. Your PEW link says 45% in 2006. You really should look at the dates of your links when making your inept claims.
I guess you missed the part where I stated: Immigration court is a type of criminal court where it is the govt (prosecution) challenging the illegal (defendant). If it were related to civil, it would be me suing you. You miss the fact that immigration court is not under the judicial branch of govt, therefor it does not fall under the civil or criminal law system. It is an executive branch court system to which Congress makes the rules for the court to follow since Congress has the sole ability over immigration. Immigration court does not function like civil or criminal courts in the fact they they are afforded certain protections and depending on the court, may be afforded a lawyer. Immigration court is the federal govt prosecuting the defendant immigrant. You are completely misusing the word civil. Any time the Federal govt brings charges it is criminal in nature, prosecutor vs defendant. In your example it would be the State being sued by Federal Govt, example Arizona vs United States where Arizona was the petitioner and the US was the respondent. Illegal immigrants aren't sued, they are charged with a violation. Not really, once the illegal makes it beyond the BP, he is then here with unlawful presence, the federal govt can charge him with the EWI still if the illegal can not prove he entered legally. A VO here under unlawful presence can still be deported and denied re-entry for 3 years to life depending on how long he was out-of-status. http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/three-ten-year-time-bars-unlawful-presence.html Deportation is punishment for a violation, even more so when the bar to re-entry is added to it.
You said that the DV was a line. I even linked to your very comment that you stated that DV was a line. The DV has no real bearing on this topic, you were the one that brought it up and claimed it was a line. How are they working outside our system? The IRS has about 8M SS#'s that don't match to the worker or to an ITIN#. Those that are working are using fake/stolen/forged documents to do so, very few are paid in cash, and those are mostly day workers that get picked up on the street or in front of Home Depot. Those receiving a paycheck make at the bare minimum minimum wage. Your very comment said Are you really going to sit here and claim that you didn't say what you clearly did say? Pure assumption on your part. Most came here without children, most were young men, it hasn't been until recently that women also started coming over. And yes, in the past they used to come here to work for a few months and then go back.
Although I have some sympathy for those who come here illegally to work, I have none for violent criminals, irregardless of their psychological "needs". IMO the least our tax-happy, over-inflated government can do is to keep known criminals and identifiable gang members out of here. I am having real difficulty understanding why our government is treating the citizens living here as criminals and recording their every move and communication when it does little if anything to keep bad actors out of here. If it can do the one it can certainly do the other. Additionally, IMO a gang tattoo should be sufficient proof that a person should not be allowed in or to remain. "Rights" be d....d. What about the rights of citizens being victimized?
Those Latino gang tattoos identify the person as being either a documented Democrat or an undocumented Democrat.
You found a case where I inadvertantly used the word "line" when referring to what others have called a line. I have consistently pointed out that it is, in fact, not a line. Our system is free market capitalism. Those we are talking about are not part of that system, obviously. Our estimated 12M undocumented residents have shown they have every intent to be here permenently, staying even when employment has been incredibly tight during our economic downturn. When employment got tough, almost none left - there was no noticable decline in numbers.
I actually agreed with the DV being a line, its one they apply for and if denied they can try again, it's one of many ways to enter. There is no "right" to migrate from one country to another. The DV grants a GC immediately, it is not a work related visa. In fact they are, especially when they file tax forms and receive back more then they had with held ending up with a negative tax rate. Its a whole lot more capitalism than it is free market. OK, so what. They have no right to be here to begin with, and if or when caught can be deported. The number did reduce by 500K give or take. The other part being the number did not increase when the recession hit, but in fact did drop from 12M to 11.5M. When AZ and GA passed their laws, their populations also declined as illegals left the state. The reality is they are nothing more than economic refugees that displace and take from society and the only ones that benefit are they themselves.
In a line, you hold a position, you will be served before later applicants. The anti-immigration side says "get in line", demanding first come, first served. You are wrong about DV being a line. It is a yearly lottery. Free market capitalism depends on people being free to be optimally productive. Those without papers are outside our system. As in communism and some other systems, they do not have the freedom upon which our system depends. Also, they have no representation - another factor that America sees as critical. They form an underclass of cheap, trapped, unrepresented labor - working within a system that WE see as bad - not just for them, but for America as a whole.
It is a line, that you enter with no guarantee of being served, its like buying a ticket and hoping they call your number, you had to wait in line to buy the ticket. Its like standing in line waiting for the checkout and then the checker turns off the light forcing you to go to a different line. That still leaves numerous other visas that can be applied for that are work related whereas the DV is not a work related visa, it is the jackpot visa with immediate Green Card status making the person a Legal Permanent Resident form the get go. Like I said we are far more capitalistic than we are free market. If you want free market, try Hong Kong. Illegals with forged documents are inside our system. They have every freedom that anybody else has, what they lack is certain protections once they are found to be illegally here. They do not deserve representation, they are here ILLEGALLY and have NO RIGHT to be here.
No, you do not have to wait in line to enter the diversity lottery. Look, you are just wrong. Our immigration service states clearly that it is a once yearly lottery to which you must reapply. And, you are fabulously wrong about undocumented aliens having employment freedom, too. I did not suggest undocumented aliens should get to vote. But, it IS a problem (including for us) that they are outside our system. Our system depends on representation. We depend on people working with police. We depend on people being as productive as possible. We depend on individuals starting new businesses and employing others. Understanding our system is important. We should, for example, recognize that our system has a built in solution for the problem of not being able to deport the large population without papers who can not pay their own way.
