The Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything

Once again the theist suggests that the frontiers of our knowledge are finite.

Fact is that science can not definitively explain the origin of terrestrial life YET. the two leading hypotheses are "abiogenesis" and "panspermia". While some progress has been made in the laboratory wrt abiogenesis it is far from definitive. As for "panspermia" it is simply an alternative "natural" explanation that does not require belief in any supernatural entity or causation.

It never strikes the theist that their faith in a creator is nothing more than wholly UNSUBSTANTIATED mythology married to appropriate philosophical argumentation, such as the ol' "nothing from nothing" argument.

 

If it wasn't for Christians, the world would be an ugly place. Uglier than it is now, or has ever been. It is Christian morals that are the glue to society. Don't believe me? Just look at some of the most brutal regimes in history. They were atheist. Enough said. So where did these morals come from? Some claim that they are subjective. I have yet to see a valid argument for that. And we have plenty of examples of what human morality does to a society. Moral behavior that is beneficial to society comes from one source. God. The same God that Created the Universe.

 

Morality is certainly not the exclusive domain of ANY one religion. I believe that morality is a construct of sapience, not religion. I believe that the core of all morality consists of two simple rules - "do unto others" and "live and let live" - neither of which was attributed to your God until he was invented or as theists would say "revealed".
Granted from a historical perspective the codification of human morality in religious teachings and dogma has had a massive impact on the evolution of our civilization.

 

The Bible says that everyone is born with an awareness of God, and that his law is inscribed in our hearts. Therefore, all morality comes from God. Is it any coincidence that every human ill we suffer from is a direct result of disobeying Gods word? Think about that.

 

I am aware to some degree what the bible says.
I categorically reject the notion that humans are born with an awareness of god. Newborns take a couple of months to discover their own fingers and how to control their movement, but I understand how some would believe an ancient and completely unprovable attribution of divine awareness in a non-communicative infant.

Have you ever stopped to consider that "every human ill we suffer" is a direct result of breaking on or both foundations of human morality? "Do unto others as" and "live and let live".

there are countless examples of religious people (of all stripes) attempting to do way more to others than they would have done onto themselves" in the name of their god.


Then there are also countless examples of religious people who can't adhere to "live and let live" when "letting live" entails others doing things they don't like or believe their particular god wouldn't.

 

I go by what the Bible says. It has never been proven wrong.

 

That's pretty funny...not bad.

 

Why is it funny?

 

..Oh..My....You were serious?

If that is the case...There is no point explaining why it is funny, if only because it has become rather sad.

 

No. What's sad is that you can'y carry on a civil discussion. I asked you a question, and you reply with an insult. How mature. (sarcasm)

 

Well....no.

In order for information to exist Matter and Energy thus Quantum Particle/Wave Forms must exist.

Information cannot exist without Quanta.

AboveAlpha

 

I answered your question as civilly as possible, If I were to answer it in more depth you would probably think me cruel and argumentative...or even worse attacking your God.

 

Maybe. Or maybe there is something more. that is the point of the OP. You seem to be saying that angst is stupid & we should forget about all that stuff & just accept your naturalistic beliefs about the universe. But maybe, an unseen, unknown intelligence PUT that angst in us to separate us from the non angst fill animals. Why would we have such a capacity, to ponder abstract concepts of eternity, infinity, alternate realities, other dimensions, & the supernatural?

I'll ask a question. Why? Why should i accept the purely naturalistic explanation for the universe, origins, eternity, & the nature of man? Why should i accept that i am merely an accident of nature, with no purpose, & no meaning for my pathetic life other than to exist & reproduce? Why should i believe the dogmatic assertions of the naturalists, when their explanations are so full of holes, devoid of logic & reason, steeped in assertions, & arrogantly demanding i 'trust them' because their credentials say they are so smart? Why should i accept any religionist's opinions about the universe, claiming god is like such & such, or that there is no god, or that life is a cosmic accident, or that my life force is reconditioned from time to time in a cosmic recycling bin?

Perhaps you want to make this a partisan conflict.. an 'us vs them' battle of ideology. I do not see this statement as valid, but merely a partisan smear toward your perceived enemies.. which is absurd, if you embrace atheism. I see your charge as being a human anomaly, not a theistic/atheistic one. Plenty of atheists are dogmatically certain of their views, when they have no more empirical evidence than the theists.
One thing i know.. if you look for points of contention, & draw up battle lines based on ideological talking points, very little insight is generated. You just have division & derision, with no thoughtful understanding forthcoming.

I have never understood why questions about the universe, which have pitiful empirical evidence, can provoke such dogmatism, hostility, & aggression. Why is someone else's OPINION about the universe a point of contention for someone else? Most of the things that people claim to know, about God, the universe, origins, the supernatural, eternity, infinity, etc, are purely speculative.. opinions & assertions. Why would someone be threatened by the opinions of another?

Angst is by definition NOT self focused.. it is on matters of eternity, the soul, God, & the universe. Sure, the fate of your life depends on the truth of whatever objective reality actually is, but it is the UNKNOWING that causes the angst. Angst is not content with mere intellectual masturbations. The unknown, seemingly unknowable mysteries of the universe have real consequences, & are not just mental exercises.

I have never read or heard of any study that shows any kind of human-like angst in animals. it seems to be a purely human trait.

 

How do you get that from my post? I am ridiculing the notion that man has arrived at the pinnacle of knowledge, when we are a mere speck in the universe. Man is a tiny, finite organism, with some mental capacity, & has built a knowledge base over years of trial & error. He has harnessed some of these natural laws to do some work for him, & free him up to ponder the mysteries of life, & dogmatically make assertions about this life. The irony of this mighty man of Knowledge, strutting about like a god, pretending to know things beyond his pay scale brings much amusement to the gods, i am sure, but little benefit to the knowledge base that man has amassed over the millennia.

I have made no arguments as a 'theist'. These thoughts are attempts at objective evaluation & analysis of the POSSIBLE realities that we humans consider. Dogmatism, either by theists or atheists has little to add to this quest, but is expected from those who cannot see past their own prejudices.

Hope springs eternal, & i also long for many of these answers, & grow weary of arrogant pontificators of delusion aiming their lie streams at us. But the guardians of the status quo have always done this, & knowledge has increased in spite of them. The fact is, we are no closer at 'knowing' how life began than we were a thousand years ago. All we have is guesswork, speculation, & dogmatic assertions from pseudo scientists who claim to know. They come up with a hip, cutesy new term every now & then, but it has no substance.

So you assert, in your omnipotence. But this is merely ad hominem, disguised as assertion. Why you feel the need to denigrate someone else's belief system, when yours is incomplete & a matter of faith is a mystery to me.

I have provided several premises that you can rebut, if you wish. But if you just want to ridicule some other's belief systems, with no defense or presentation of your own.. well, that seems pretty pathetic to me.

If you think you have arrived at the Absolute Truth of the Universe, please present it. I would be very interested in hearing your proofs. But i am pretty skeptical.. i have heard a lot of these before, & am not easily bluffed by mere assertions.

 

You know....their is no conflict with the reality of evolution and cosmological development of the universe and earth with one's believing or not that a GOD or GODS exist.

Maybe a GOD or GODS exist....maybe they don't?

The point is whether they do or don't....both Quantum Evolution and Biological Evolution is the way such a GOD or GODS would have developed the Multiverse and all living or not things and natural laws within them.

AboveAlpha

 

You are right. there is no conflict with those who believe in these things, whether they are theists or atheists. I would venture to say that MOST theists are evolutionists, & probably ALL atheists are.
But for me, Truth is not a democratic process. Science has to be proved, to be valid. Merely dogmatically asserting things as 'settled science' does not make it so.

I am a skeptic. I see so many holes in the ToE i would need another thread to list them. But that is not really the topic here, though it might relate some. ..not a lot, because, as you noted, the ToE is embraced by both theists & atheists.. those who believe in a supernatural, & those who believe in purely naturalistic explanations.

But i see your assertion of: 'Biological Evolution is the way' as being no more than a dogmatic assertion, with no basis in scientific fact. I know that you are firmly convinced it is 'settle science', and i am quite impressed with the success of the indoctrination of this ideological agenda, but as to the science.. well, it is woefully lacking.

 

I do admit that contemporary conceit that all humans seem to suffer has been a major stumbling block to scientific and technological progress. And I also agree that strutting about contributes nothing. As to "pretending" to know things beyond his pay scale, it appears as tho theists are content with "pretending" to know things that are contained in a book written by ancient people who were grossly more ignorant of the world they lived in considering they predated the invention of the scientific method by some a couple of millennia.

It was a specific response to your statement:

I simply disagreed with your assessment. I beleive that how we came about is a quest that ONLY reason and science will be able to answer. Of course we aren't there yet, but to arbitrarily declare something of such import to our species psyche as being unknowable is even more arrogant.

Science does not operate on guesswork and speculation, nor on dogmatic assertions. Those people you claim do so, are indeed pseudo scientists.
If you think that work on the abiogenesis hypothesis has not advanced our understanding of complex amino acid creation for example then you are sadly uninformed. Has it achieved the creation of a single cell organism? Nope not even close yet, we are still working on the creation and organization of its constituent chemistry. Will it ultimately lead to success? that remains to be seen.

But if you think that the bible has advanced our knowledge of HOW, I have to completely disagree. It, like all religious scriptures, has ONE explanation for everything we humans have been ignorant of. It is not knowledge, it is belief. It is not truth, it is faith.

I do not claim omnipotence in any way shape or form. Might help to refresh your memory of what the word actually means.
My knowledge is incomplete which is why I am an AGNOSTIC atheist.

It is always difficult for those of faith to comprehend that an atheists rejection of religious dogma is based on a complete lack of scientific evidence to support that dogma.
Not just Christian dogma, but all religious dogma. So I am not surprise that it is a mystery to you how I can be an atheist when you "know" the truth.

how utterly amazing. You automatically reject "assertions" from those that do not believe as you do, yet you accept the myriad "assertions" contained in both your scriptures and specific dogma. Apparently you cannot see the hypocrisy that is staring you in the face.

As to the absolute Truth of the universe, we have a long way to go to achieve such "enlightenment". Its that old contemporary conceit thing again. OTOH, I happen to believe that as our intelligence, emotions and knowledge evolves, we will eventually find answers to many if not all of the basic questions with "unknowable answers" which, which will no doubt spawn other questions with unknowable answers.

My own "truth of the universe" is very simple.
We are born, we live and we die, just like all other terrestrial life.
Sapience begins at birth and ends at death, with no supernatural extensions granted.
Immortality can only be found in accomplishments remembered by history and our loved ones.
We have a long, long way to go in our exploration of the universe, our solar system, our world and ourselves. We remain intellectual toddlers at this point of only 300 or so generations of civilization.
I am perfectly comfortable with logical scientific hypotheses as answers to fundamental questions, recognizing any or all of those hypotheses could well be proven wrong in the future.

I base these beliefs my personal evaluation of the science of multiple disciplines and of course logic, all fueled by my own personal 40 year long search for faith which I have found entirely elusive.

I also recognize that those who possess faith will not accept any of my personal opinions and beliefs regardless of how much evidence might support them.

And it has long been my experience that theists do not recognize their faith is wholly unsubstantiated by any evidence other than their holy scriptures and the dogma that accreted from them.

However I also believe that it is the right of all people to believe in whatever they wish, provided "they live and let live" and "do unto others as". I respect an individual's faith, but I am under no compunction to respect the objects and tenets of that faith.

 

Of course its been proven wrong.

the OT is full of impossible myths.

now the stories of Jesus and his teachings cannot be proven or disproven, unless somebody invents a time machine, since the ONLY source for ANY information wrt Jesus and his doings is the bible.

Then again, revelations and many of the plethora of "end time" predictions have been proven wrong.

But never mind. I understand that it is natural reaction for theists when confronted with facts to retreat to faith.

 

is this a question?

 

OK....let me try to explain this politely and with no intention of forcing you to believe what I tell you.

The Theory of Evolution changed into FACT back in 1999....and the group that stated this was the ASA....American Science Academy....and they were able to proclaim it to be a FACT because they had obtained a Mathematical Proof.

You see in reality a Theory can NEVER become a FACT until an actual MATHEMATICAL PROOF exists.

If I say 46-3=43.......then the ONLY way I can state this to be a FACT is to have a MATHEMATICAL PROOF.

That PROOF being 46-3=43....43+3=46.

In having a Mathematical Proof we can all say and KNOW with 100% CERTAINTY that 46-3=43!!!!

Now we have always had a lot of physical evidence that supported the Theory of Evolution such as Fossil Records and many other things but it was not until the age of Genetics and Molecular Biology that we were able to completely map the Human Genome.

We had at that point also mapped the Genomes of thousands of other species of animals and plants and insects and all forms of lives and we found one thing that became a MATHEMATICAL PROOF OF EVOLUTION.

Inside the Genome of every species of life on Earth is one single VIRAL DNA ENCODING that is the same and exists within the Genomes of ALL LIFE ON EARTH!!!

Now understand there are millions upon millions of Viral DNA encodings in the Genomes of all species of life but what we found was that ONLY ONE VIRAL DNA ENCODING THAT WAS THE SAME VIRUS EXISTED WITHIN EVERY SINGLE LIFE FORMS GENOMES!!!

There is only one possible way this could have happened.

Every time you or I or any life form plant or animal is infected by a Virus the Virus get's into our living cells and reprograms their DNA to turn our own cells into Virus Manufacturing Machines!!!

You see a Virus IS NOT ALIVE!!!!

The two men who won the Nobel Prize in Virology won in the CHEMISTRY CATEGORY!!!

NOT THE BIOLOGY CATEGORY!!!

You know why?

Because a Virus is not a living thing!!!

A Virus has DNA but a virus cannot reproduce by itself....it is a long chain Molecule that is just a small step BELOW WHAT IS LIFE!!!

To a living cell a Virus looks like food or oxygen and the living cell takes it in as such into it's membrane and once inside the Viral Molecule REPROGRAMS THE LIVING CELLS DNA AND ENCODES THE VIRAL DNA INTO THE LIVING CELLS!!!

Now once this happens a cell will use it's own raw material to make more Viruses until there exist so many Viruses inside a cell the cell membrane erupts and explodes outward all the Virus inside.

Now as living cells reproduce by Mitosis as their Chromosomes unravel from one into 2 sets and the cell splits via Mitosis to become two cells with the same DNA.....just previous to the cell splitting they were infected by a Virus.

As the cells split one cell had it's DNA recoded to the point it would not survive but the OTHER CELL....well it relieved enough of the Viral DNA Encoding so that if it ever came upon a Virus again it would recognize it and not take it in as food or O2......but this cell SURVIVED and all that did passed on the IMMUNITY to the following generations.

The Virus existed before the very first original Single Celled Life Form on Earth and these Cells were infected by a Virus and the Viral DNA encoded into both the cells that were killed and partially encoded into the cells that were at that time of infection close to Mitosis!!!

This ONE IN THE SAME Viral DNA Encoding EXISTS IN ALL THE GENOMES OF ALL LIFE FORMS ON EARTH INCLUDING HUMANS!!!

This is 100% PROOF POSITIVE UPON A MOLECULAR/ATOMIC LEVEL WHICH ACHIEVES ITSELF AS A MATHEMATICAL PROOF THAT EVOLUTION IS A FACT!!!

And NEVER in the history of Humanity has a Theory obtained a Mathematical Proof and classified as fact and then later found out to be false.

It just like 46-3=43....43+3=46

AboveAlpha

 

Wow! Some people will go to any lengths to win an argument. This could also be proof of a Creator. Could it not? Sure it could. But you always go with the atheist viewpoint, no matter what the evidence says.

 

I am not an Atheist.

I am Agnostic as anyone who follows the scientific method worth their salt should be.

And what I posted has NOTHING TO DO with either proving or disproving whether a GOD or GODS exist.

That is something there is no evidence either way.

AboveAlpha

 

Is the big bang or the black hole and the rest of ideas prevailing now a fact? Have all scientific theories like quantum mechanics, theory of relativity, the God particle been facts now? Is atheism a fact? Maybe I cannot be answered the way I have no proof about the existence of God.

 

Funny Fact.

The Particle Physicist who wrote a book that sold millions upon millions of copies was told by his editor and the company that put out the book for him to change the title of the book from......THE *******N PARTICLE.......to the title.....THE GOD PARTICLE.

You see the people and this Particle Physicist who had been for years looking for the all elusive Higgs-Boson which the Higgs field generated by it is responsible for giving Hadrons Mass thus generating Gravity were so frustrated looking for this particle he wrote a book he called THE *******N PARTICLE!!! LOL!!!

The EDITOR who was very smart told the author....HEY!! If you change the name of the book to THE GOD PARTICLE you are going to get millions upon millions of hardcore CREATIONISTS who will buy your book thinking this is proof that a GOD exists.

So he changed the mane of the book to THE GOD PARTICLE....and sure as S#!#.....millions of creationists bought the book making it one of the largest selling physics books ever!! LOL!!!

AboveAlpha

 

This God Particle or the (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) Particle theory is incomprehensible to me and I do not care if I do not understand since I have tried for a few days to understand this idea and relate to my understanding of the universe or to have a scientific look at what until now I presume to be true.

I do not think any atheist or physicist has the answer or could understand the construct of the universe or they have factual answers. Can the God particle be explained to the layman? I do not think so.

Life is short and I do not think this thing matters.

I still believe in mysticism and though there things science has helped me to understand the nature of things more clearly. For example I support the theory of evolution.