The Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything

Well...Quantum Mechanics is difficult to understand for the average person and even those of us who know a great deal about it still know very little in the grand scheme.

But we are learning.

AboveAlpha

 

We are participants in what we perceive to be life. We could be specially chosen or we could be the luck of the draw. The answer is continuance.

 

The General Theory of Everything......

....Alcohol.....the cause and solution of all of life's ills!

AboveAlpha

 

exactly, religions can be proved or disproved by finding impossibilities in their writing, but the proving of God or Gods is impossible

 

But our curiosity never ceases since to think about God or the mystery of creation is a luxury. When we look above or around us everything seems so perfect, orderly like we have seasons that roll and we have harvests; we have so many beautiful mountains and lakes and diverse creatures. Our universe is so big, inconceivably big that we feel comfortable thinking that some powers control it or there is some intelligence or collective or universal consciousness beyond all we see.

 

Quasars have been seen starting or ending. Matter can be seen spiraling into some black holes. Black holes emit extra energy when they are "feeding."

The cosmic microwave background radiation is the evidence for the finiteness of our universe. Modern science also considers our universe to be an open system. The multiverse is considered to be the realm of infinity.

The track record of progressive evolution suggests that there ought to be something beyond the present form of earthly humans. The fact that we are using only a portion of our potential mental capacity suggests that we are destined for something better. Maybe we were not given all of what the mold is based on.

A meteor from Mars has structures that look like fossilized microbes. Some meteors from other regions of the solar system carry organic compounds. Recently the space station had unexpected microbial growth on its exterior.

 

Like i said, i see this as a distinctly HUMAN trait, not anything tied to a particular ideology or belief system. But if you wish to ascribe superiority to your 'group', that is understandable. Groupthink is a human trait as well. It is a difficult, but worthy, exercise to go beyond loyalties to the 'group' & consider truth more objectively, without the support of the group.

Yes, i see this as your belief. You may be right, but we don't know. My statement remains true, for now, as there is NO empirical explanation for our origins. It is all a matter of belief.

Exactly. 'Hope springs eternal'. But wishful thinking & optimism are not empirical evidence, & only encourage the belief.. they do not contribute to the scientific method.

Irrelevant. I have not made any arguments about the bible or any 'religious scriptures'. I have made a comparison between the only 2 basic world views i can imagine. Either the universe occurred naturally, by natural processes, or it was ordered by intelligent design. Specific religions are irrelevant.

No need to get pissy. I merely pointed out your arrogance, in ASSUMING your belief system to be superior to another's, when you have no more empirical evidence than they do. That you double down with the ad hominem is also no surprise, & seems to be the preferred tactic when reason is lacking. YOU are the one claiming 'higher knowledge', yet you admit that it is only wishful thinking to this point. You HOPE that evidence will be forthcoming, but you do not know. That is the basis of faith, & your belief system is only that. You have no right to denigrate another's belief system, when your own is merely a personal belief.

Well, it seems a rational discussion is once again hijacked by groupthink loyalties. Too bad. I see no point in continuing this line of discussion, as it will only provoke a flame war.

I am still amazed at how a simple discussion about matters beyond our ability to 'know' can elicit such powerful emotions & anger. Intolerance is alive & well with humanity, & the more things change, the more they stay the same.

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it is a question, an analysis, & a comparison. I have presented a few premises to 'debate' if you wish.

 

Well, i find this to be fantastic. I am amazed that you believe this 'proves' evolution. And no, i do not feel 'forced' by you to accept your beliefs, but i find it incredible that thinking people can extrapolate their thinking to include this kind of 'reasoning'.

Somehow, you believe that the similarity in DNA, or the carbon based system that life seems to be based on proves common ancestry. but it also 'proves' intelligent design. Why would you assume that a creator would make everything different? DNA in some things, silicone based in others.. etc?

I get it. You are convinced of the naturalistic explanation of the universe, just as many others are convinced of a supernatural one. But to come up with reasonings like this to bolster your beliefs is pretty wild. I'm happy for you that you are content to believe this, & i suppose it might provide some calm assurance. But this proves NOTHING. It does not explain a mechanism by which organisms can add chromosomes, or jump from one complex form of life to another. It is merely an assertion of belief, with some wild theories to prop it up.

I see it as no different than some religious person's commitment to a written text. It is merely science by decree, & it does violence to the scientific method. .. but to correlate it to a mathematical 'proof' is unbelievable. I'm sorry. I don't usually ridicule other people's religious beliefs, but try to accept that people believe a great many things. But it is your absolutism & dogmatic assertions about this that gets me.. especially masked in pseudo scientific jargon. This is not science. It is merely another religion.

 

The big difference here can be summed up in one simple word:


OBSERVATION.

 

I totally agree. "Objectivity" is NOT necessary when one relies on faith. As to superiority of my "group" as you put it, that is nonsense. I do not blame nor denigrate anyone for having faith. It is the human constructs of religious dogma that surrounds that faith that I reject.

Yes, we don't know. The theist ascribes the unknown to god. The atheist (agnostic or not) ascribes the unknown to our collective ignorance.

You seem to be confusing objective scientific hypotheses and approaches with "wishful thinking and optimism", since neither play a part in scientific methodology.
It seems you are unfamiliar with the tenets of the scientific method.

Okay.

Except that your "ordered by intelligent design" is a religious perspective, one that EVERY religion foundationally depends on. And since that religious perspective can only be derived from the religion's scriptures and related dogma, it becomes the foundational "evidence" for all theists. It is wholly dependent on the existence of a supernatural plane of existence, one which has zero evidence of its existence. At least the natural explanations for the universe are framed by our knowledge of those processes. Hence our inability to answer the question what came before, what sparked the big bang, etc., yet we can describe the processes from the first few nanoseconds of its existence, that is consistent with the observable and in many cases proven natural processes of this universe.

No, you are the one making the assumption. I do not claim "higher knowledge", I merely claim scientific knowledge in lieu of religious dogma.

As for ad homs, I think you have either a very odd definition of what constitutes an ad hom, or are remarkably sensitive to general observations.

For instance, your use of "omnipotence" was wildly out of context. Is it an ad hom to suggest you refresh your memory on the use of the word?

your "truth" is based on faith, mine on science and this obvious disconnect when pointed out isn't remotely close to an ad hom.

I have every right to denigrate religious dogma, just as the religious claim the right to denigrate atheism and non-belief. At least I do not condemn those whose beliefs do not align with mine to eternal damnation.

Now that is a marvelous deflection. I laid out my basic perspective on humanity and the best response you can come up with is "group think loyalties"? Seems to me that your group think loyalties PREVENT you from engaging in simple discussion of these tenets of my belief.

Powerful emotions and anger? If you actually believe I am powerfully moved by this discussion or angry at you or your arguments, you have completely misperceived my posts.

Yes, intolerance is alive and well within humanity. OTOH, the more things change, the more things change. Knowledge, science and technology do not change basic human nature, since so much of it is genetically programmed. That is the "they" in the "more they stay the same".

 

I completely agree with this. Unless you can observe, repeat, & test a hypothesis, it is merely speculation at best or dogmatic assertion at worst. You can believe in mythical processes or beings, it doesn't matter. But the OBSERVABLE reality is that WE DON'T KNOW. We don't know life's origins, the universe's origins, or untold other mysteries of the universe. Claiming to know so, whether you base it on pseudo scientific language, or religious revelations return the same unknown quantity.

Saying 'we're going to know any day now.. the science is nearly complete', is no different than claiming, 'God will tell us any day now.. the truth will finally be known'.. it is all wishful thinking & speculation. The fact is that we are no nearer to explaining the origins of life & the universe than we were 1000 years ago, & we have not heard from God, either. Some people claim to have 'heard from God', & some people claim to 'know the science is settled', but neither of them are verifiable by the scientific method. Both are sincerely held, & obstinate beliefs, nothing more.

One of the points of the OP was to show the difference in CONSEQUENTIAL ideology, depending on the base beliefs concerning origins. It is a very important basis for our subsequent beliefs, & flavors our world view. Many people vigorously promote & defend their beliefs, since they are so fundamental to the rest of their world view. But the irony is that most of these subsequent conclusions are based purely on a Belief. The logic & rationale builds an amazing structure of philosophy, but it is all based on an assumption.

Now, of course, you may be claiming that we can 'observe' macro evolution, or the vertical changes in species, but of course, we do not. We only observe simple variability, & therein lies much of the difficulty claiming evolution as the source of our origins. there is no mechanism that can do this, & the high walls of genetics OBSERVABLY forbids it. So in spite of the grandiose claims, this view of origins is based on belief.. not science.

 

I don't really care to get drawn into a lot of groupthink bickering, but i'll make a comment on this.
You merely DEFINE the naturalistic view as 'science', & the supernaturalistic view as 'religion.' There is no objective reality to prove your naturalistic assumption is any more 'scientific' than the supernaturalistic one.

I return to the point raised in the OP:

As far as objective, empirical evidence or proof of either, we have none. There are speculations.. opinions.. beliefs.. but empirical reality for proof of origins? None. Nada. Zip.

That is the premise of the OP, as well as some subsequent, consequential beliefs that follow either assumption.

But it is merely prejudice to label one as 'science', & the other as 'religious', when the Truth of origins are unknown. It is a quite common thing, but i raise this to clarify my meaning in the OP. Science, as a method of discovery can validate or invalidate either 'theory' of origins. It is not inherently one or the other.

 

so you believe. I hope you realize that almost everything you are talking about is hypothetical. There is NO WAY to verify or disprove these speculations.

These are pretty shaky things to base a world view upon. Why? Why should there 'ought to be something' beyond earthly life? Because of your naturalistic assumption? Who 'suggests we are destined for something better?' Natural selection? How can it provide any 'destiny' or will for something 'better?'

The other things are wishful thinking, or hopeful revelations that will 'prove' the belief. But without those proofs, you are left only with belief.

 

Agreed, though there is quite a difference between knowing you do not know and working systematically to remedy the ignorance....and claiming you DO know and ignoring everything else because you prefer to dwell in the ignorance.

 

This a truly brilliant analysis of what probably occurred!!!!!

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html

 

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As you know..... I am basically a Theist.......... and I can't help wondering if the time may come when we understand that original viral DNA to have something to do with some sort of "tree of knowledge of good and evil" that may have been presented to one or more or even all of the Adam / Armilius- types that Edgar Cayce wrote about???!!!


http://www.near-death.com/paranormal/edgar-cayce/human-origins.html

Edgar Cayce on Human Origins

..................…

AboveAlpha...… who do you personally suspect is closer to the truth...… Richard Dawkins Ph. D. or little old me with my belief in evolution occurring in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy?

www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/

.


(It is important to note though that Richard Dawkins Ph. D. took a significant step in my direction when he admitted that it was quite possible for an alien life form to evolve to become technologically advanced and those aliens.... could well have been involved in human evolution or history)!

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...richard-dawkins-ph-d-aliens-seeded-earth.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL7CCyuXAS4
Richard Dawkins: Aliens Seeded Earth?

 

Well....there is no such thing as 4-D Space-Time.

It is AT MINIMUM......10-D....could be 11-D or 26-D.

But 4-D is not enough Space-Time dimensionality for Matter and Energy to exist.

AboveAlpha

 

Logical deductions are not prohibited just because means of verification or proof are not yet available. Your focus emphasizes undermining to the point of absurdity. Perhaps it suits your agenda, which seems to be towards maximizing the gaps in favor of the "god of the gaps" scenario.

Projection is based on recognition of pattern and presumed continuation of process. Jumps in progressive evolution are not in the habit of announcing themselves beforehand.

Adaptation for survival to cope with environmental challenges is the game of raw nature. Humans are confronting issues beyond the consideration of raw earthly nature.

 

Very true.

The Brain of Neanderthal was larger than the brain of Homo sapiens....but just like we make smaller and more powerful computers with greater amount of RAM and Memory....the Homo sapiens brain evolved in the same way.

For Humanity to develop the technology that will solve issues of hunger, disease, war and the ability to want for nothing and achieve Interstellar Travel....our Brains are going to have to evolve a bit....but we don't have to wait for such evolution to occur slowly.

We now have several methods to enhance human intelligence and life spans and health that exist NOW!!!

Not 20 years from now or in the distant future but NOW!

The next stage of Human Evolution could be Genetic Enhancement....or it could be Nano-Molecular Enhancement....and we certainly are capable of directly connecting the Human Brain to a Computer.

Such things have to be implemented with great wisdom and done slowly as it is well known that High Intelligence in some people does not go hand in hand with greater empathy.

I am lucky.

I had two highly intelligent parents with outstanding genetic traits specific to physicality, long life, high analytic and social intelligence and the ability to not look the other way when seeing a person in need.

But I know a LOT of people who are intelligent that simply do not have it in them to have any degree of EMPATHY.

We are going to soon be increasing the ability of the human brain to function at a higher level as contrary to popular belief....YES....a person DOES use all parts of their brain.

But what a person does not do is USE THEM ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!!

We can change this using Genetic Engineering and along with Nano-Bot Technology we can do anything from reprogram cellular DNA to destroy tumors that would ordinarily be inoperable....or.....we can use Nano-Tech to build connections between parts of the brain to other parts of the brain....creating greater neural activity and connectivity as well as being able to actual have something like a USB PORT at the back of a persons head to directly download knowledge and information.

This is all possible.

It's no longer SCI-FI.

One area they are working on is growing additional neural connections between the left and right brain hemispheres.

A few years back...and I NEVER get sick....I contracted of all things a rare Cat to Human Virus that gave me VERTIGO.

Now for those who have never gotten VERTIGO I can tell you that to imagine you are just standing still and looking at something then all of a sudden for no apparent reason you are aware of THE WHOLE WORLD BEGINS TO VISUALLY SPIN AROUND YOU!!!

I am healthy and in well above average physical condition but I had been shot working in the field years ago and when I got Vertigo it was right after 3 time Superbowl Champ. New England Patriot Teddy Bruschi had a small stroke because of a previously existing unknown condition and he went on TV after recovering and told everyone if the signs appear to not wait and get to the Hospital.

I am the kind of guy who's wrist was broken and two fingers were hanging be a thread of flesh and with a bit of super glue, gauze and duct tape...I was back in action.

But my girlfriend at the time insisted I go to the Hospital so they picked me up in an ambulance and because I am never sick I was thinking that this was IT....and my BP and Heart Rate were through the roof!!

They got me to the ER and a pretty female Doc. and her assistant sent me in for a CT scan of my head.

30 minutes goes by and the whole room is still spinning and the pretty Doc comes back and say's to me...."We have to do the CT scan again!"

Now....now I am literally making peace with GOD and my life as anytime a Doc orders ANOTHER CT SCAN OF YOUR HEAD....well it's usually not a good sign!!!

Another 30 minutes later the pretty Doc and 4 other Doctors come into the CT room where I am laying down and still the room is spinning visually and the lady Doc asks me...."Are you left or right handed?"

I say...."Well...both. Somethings I use my right hand for and others my left."

Lady Doc asks..."Would you consider yourself to be more of an Analytical and Logical person or do you consider yourself to be a Art and Design and Creative person?"

I say..."Well....I hold multiple degrees....some specific to Particle Physics and Cosmology and I also have a degree in Music."

Lady Doc asks...."You play in a band?"

I say..."Yeah....play, sing....and I am also a Sound and Light Engineer."

Lady Doc asks me..."Do you paint?"

I say..."Yeah I paint using canvas and oil paints as well I do water colors and I sculpt."

She asks me..."Do you remember your dreams?"

I say...."I always KNOW when I am dreaming and I can control my dreams."

Lady Doc asks me...."Do you have a Cat?"

I say..."Yeah...why?"

She say's...."OK...this all figures now!"

I say...."What the HELL are you talking about and why is the whole room spinning on me!!!??"

Lady Doc say's...."Your going to be fine. There is a rare Feline to Human Virus going around that gives people VERTIGO and we will give you a few things to take for it but it might take 2 or 3 days to stop."

I say...."OH!! THANK GOD!!! I THOUGHT I WAS HAVING A STROKE!! But why did you make me take the CT scan two times?"

Lady Doc say's...."OK....I don't want you to get upset about this but......

My freakin' heart sank to the FLOOR!!

.....Lady Doc continues....."BUT....the first time we took the CT scan on your head we thought the picture might have blurred as it didn't look right.....sooo....

MY HEART SANK AGAIN!!!

Lady Doc continues...."Soooo....we took another scan of your brain and we found something unusual."

Now I am back to making peace with whatever GOD might be and thinking this is it and......

Lady Doc say's....."It all makes sense know that I know your ambidextrous and are both analytic and creative."

And I am like....."WHAT!!?? WHAT THE F@#% IS WRONG WITH ME!!!???"

Lady Doc say's....."You have an incredibly large number of neural connections between your left and right brain hemispheres and we have never seen anything like it so we thought maybe you moved and blurred the CT Scan but we took another and it's the same."

So right at that point I KNEW the reason why there were so many Doctors in that room with me because from my experience when something unusually human that presents itself there is ALWAYS going to be Doc's who want to prick and probe you and figure out what makes you tick.

And the next words out of this male Doc confirmed what I was thinking as he said...."WE WOULD LIKE TO KEEP YOU HERE FOR A FEW DAYS SO WE CAN RUN SOME FURTHER TESTS...JUST TO BE SURE."

I immediately thought to myself....F@#% THAT!!!

I said...."Just write me a script and I am out of here!!!"

They would not let me go right then and there so they put me in a bed in the E.R....gave me the med's.....and the Lady Doc came over with a Nurse and said...."I am going to give you 2 mg IV of Lorazepam which is a TRANK to allow you to sleep as in an hour the drugs will kick in."

I tell her...."It's not going to work. I used to train soldiers in methods of PSY-OP'S and I am immune to such low dosages.

So she gives me 4 mg IV.

Comes back in 5 minutes....NOTHING...comes back in 15 minutes...NOTHING....I am WIDE AWAKE and I would not wish VERTIGO on an enemy!!!

She comes back again and say's...." I should not do this as such doses are reserved for highly agitated people who are struggling but.....

I tell her...."Give me another 5 mg IV....then 10 minutes later give me 30 mg Valium orally.

Lady Doc starts to protest telling me things I already know about not mixing Lorazepam also known as Ativan with Diazepam....which is Valium.

I tell her...."I am trained for this and with the low dosages you are giving me I will not fall asleep!"

She takes pity on me and does as I am asked.

STILL COULD NOT SLEEP!!!

Too much noise in the ER!!

AboveAlpha

 

You are definitely a person who I would enjoy picking your brain for hours.

 

Well thank you.

That is most kind.

You can always ask me anything.

AboveAlpha

 

what evidence is that?

 

Exactly!

What do you personally think of the theory that many UFO events may be done by intelligent life that exists primarily in a higher dimension of space time?

Or.... do you think that they have just discovered something far beyond the type of stealth tech used on the F-22 Raptors and on the F-35?

(You probably already answered a similar question over in this other thread but..... I haven't yet had the time to go through it thoroughly):

http://www.politicalforum.com/russi...nt-talks-about-release-e-t-data-part-2-a.html

Russia's Government talks about Release of E.T. data. (Part 2)

 

"There is no empirical answer to our origins. There are no natural laws, or scientific explanations that can even make a decent guess as to HOW we came about. We are here. Descartes settled that for us. But HOW we came about remains a mystery, unanswerable by human reason & senses. If there is an answer to this question, reason & science cannot answer it."

Truth, and the laws of Nature ARE THE ANSWER to everything. Without them there is nothing. One basic truth in the laws of nature is the atom....it makes up everything that is. Anything that doesn't obey the laws of nature does not exist. And because of those laws, there IS a point to everything.

 

That sounds surprisingly similar to '42'..



Because of atoms, there is a point to everything? could you elaborate on that?