Time for the U.S. to Colonize the Moon and Mars.

We never quit working on the SDI. Now if we can end apartheid.

 

I cannot fathom how anyone could consider landing a person on Mars
without first having the experience of a Moon Colony.


Moi

No ​

 

Not a complete waste, we learned a huge amount about how to make powerful lasers, which are very useful for many applications, in making NIF. But the approach will never make a power plant.

Tokamac are another story. With Significant amounts of He3 as a fuel, they might well work.

But Lockheed is working on a linear accelerator single straight though pipeline device which is enough simpler in design that I think it hold more promise for a first working system.

But after we get the Lockheed one shot device working, the things learned, particularly on how to protect the first surface containment wall, can be applied to the Tokamac designs to make a functioning and efficient system.

Tokamacs are just too complex and expensive to act as a reasonable test bed.

-

 

Now....I will not confirm or deny anything specific to Power Generation but the FEL is very real and anyone here can check it out. The NAVY has been doing low power beaming tests such as being able to keep an FEL beam perfectly locked on to a single spot on a small craft rocking in heavy seas.....as well as tests of the FEL easily tracking and targeting and destroying drones.

But the BIG DOG IN THE POUND as far as this is concerned is....if it is real....Unlimited Clean Energy......and number two....IF....the FEL is properly powered....as we know if it is it will work as advertised...that will mean that THE ENTIRE U.S. MILITARY WILL HAVE TO COMPLETELY RESTRUCTURE ITSELF.....as entire major Military Systems and Programs will be made overnight obsolete and unneeded.

AboveAlpha

 

I appreciate your knowledge on this, very interesting. What is the oxygen process they planned to use for the manned mars trip? Perhaps we need to create plants or machines that put out enormous amounts of oxygen.

 

So you might find this article interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_helium

So He3 and He4 are stable. He5 has a very short half-life.

I've never heard of anyone stating that He4 would make a good fusion fuel, though that may be for other reasons, such as a potential or probability to combine with other elements or itself to produce fusion byproducts which are highly radio active or toxic.

 

There is enormous amounts of both Liquid and Frozen water on Mars...and NASA even thinks there might exist massive underground aquifers either or both solid and liquid.

All you need to get Oxygen is run an electric charge or UV-Light into Water and you get Oxygen and Hydrogen both of which could be used in many ways including space craft fuel and for breathing among just a few.

Humanities current abilities in Genetic Engineering could very easily even RIGHT NOW....design designer Bacteria and other Organisms as well as Plants that could live and grow on Mars as well as be used to extract minerals and other needed things from Martian rocks and soil.

I once dated for a short time a very beautiful and intelligent woman who was involved in a NASA funded project to replicate Martian Life up near the Arctic Circle on an Island that had rock and soil conditions similar to Mars.

It must have either been the interest I had in Mars or perhaps the fact that 4 young women including her and 1 older Professor were roughing it for a 2 Month period on their second attempt and because I am an expert in Arctic, Ocean and Desert Survival...Jungle too but nothing on this island except reddish iron oxidized rocks and the occasional Polar Bear.....but for some reason I agreed to stay with them for the 2 months back in the late 1980's.

First thing I will say is scientists and researchers seem and act very brave as they document their efforts on old VHS....but the second a Bear comes swimming to shore....THEY FREAK!!!

I had to FORCE THEM to allow me to bring several weapons including a 44 Mag, 357 Mag. and a 10 and 12 gauge each loaded with a high penetration slug.

A 30.06 although a great rifle for Bear can send a round right through them and they will keep coming.

This is why it is so important to have a 44 Mag or 357 Mag and if possible a .500 Desert Eagle as a Polar Bear or especially a Large Brown on this island with it's could be right around a corner and be on you before you know it.

You want SIMPLICITY so no SEMI-AUTO'S.....Revolvers and Pump Action 10 or 12 Gage using that High Penetration Slug.

Now....if I could have I would have brought with me a SPECIAL TOY of mine that is full auto but I had to lie about the two handguns as it was.

Thing is these scientists and researchers were going on and on telling me how a Polar Bear or Large Brown or Grizzly....which for some reason would show up that far North as where this Island was was next to another island forming a channel between them where Salmon would run and I believe this is the most Northern Salmon Run in the world.....these Bears could be discouraged using PEPPER SPRAY AND LANGUAGE!!!!

Now as far as a Grizzly or Brown being hidden between the bushes eating berries up a hill where at the top was a large Mar's Like plateau...you need to balance the two possibilities that.......

#1. You make noise walking up the trail so as to not startle them so they don't attack or defend cubs.

#2. You are also thinking perhaps a Large Brown or even Polar Bear is hiding waiting for you in the bushes so that by making noise you are ringing the dinner bell!! LOL!!!

So they are going on and on about not hurting a BEAR because I keep telling them that a Polar Bear is not going to back down against a 5 foot 2 woman holding the equivalent of some Louisiana Hot Sauce in her hands to go with her flesh.

As well any large Brown Bear this far North when the Salmon are not running as such a bear could just as easily be much further south and if a large Brown is here it is because it is too old or sick to swim across unfrozen sea water.

The Professor who had been there the first failed attempt was only there for 9 days and because nothing happened to him last time over only nine days he thinks that means being there for 2 Months will be the same ignoring my warning that these bears can smell FOOD....ie US....for many many miles.

2nd day we are there in the late morning I see off in the distance a Polar Bear swimming toward the island from a large almost flat piece of sea ice....as there are numerous ice floats and broken off giant pieces of Glaciers floatig in the current.

I am the only one to see it and they are all saying to me I am jumpy and seeing things but I know better and the OTHER reason I am there besides the girls is because my former Professor who was a one time Best Friend with this guy I am with now on this island asked me to go as a favor to keep an eye on them as the two men had a falling out....or rather knowing my former Professor who is cool headed and THINKS before he opens his mouth....tried to help this guy I am with and hurt this guy's ego trying to tell him in advance about something this Boy Scout was going to make public a paper that was riddled with mistakes and faulty data due to an improper Control Group.

So....the second night the girls are kind of scared which makes fun for telling Scary Stories and we are sleeping in this Dome made out of flimsy plastic and Mylar and have several ultra thin solar panels that keep getting clogged with dust....REAL GREAT DESIGN TO GO TO MARS WITH DON'T YOU THINK??!!???

The Mylar is strong as long as it does not get punctured and the plastic it is attached to which is opaque in order to create a sun lit shelter but the idiots...ie...a few of the girls and this guy I am with....have used a HEAT SEALER in order to connect the patches of Mylar to the Plastic.....more to come....

AboveAlpha

 

I believe a base on the ocean floor could be a good place to learn more about building such structures in less convenient environments.

 

According to the article, Helium 4 is the most abundant form of Helium on Earth. When people talk/think about Helium this is THE form of Helium that they are talking about. It's so abundant that Helium 4 is the second most common element in the Universe after Hydrogen, almost all matter in the universe that isn't hydrogen is Helium-4. And it's stable too.

If such an abundant, stable element had any potential for energy production it would have been used long ago. The fact that it's only being used to fill party balloons and float blimps shows that there isn't an energy ability for this isotope of the Helium element.

On top of that there's a difference on the quantum level that I don't understand, because I never studied quantum physics. Helium-4 atoms are bosons while Helium-3 atoms are fermions. That could make all the difference.

All higher number Helium isotopes decay into Helium-4 within a fraction of a second or so. So, this is the final form for helium in most tests and reactions that produce higher number Helium isotopes.

But, reading the article it also says that He5 was produced in a particle accelerator to study Neutrons, so Neutrons being a form of Hadron (and this triggering a memory), I must have heard about Helium-5 years ago on the radio perhaps describing some experiments done at the Large Hadron Collider.

I must be on the wrong track thinking that higher isotope numbers had use for energy production. The abundance of Helium-4 seems to say otherwise. Actually, perhaps lower isotopes, like the theoretical Helium-2 isotope would be more useful. But, it decays even faster than He-5+ But, who knows if going in that lower direction actually moves us out of the Helium element all together after the decay.

Since Helium-3 and Helium-4 are stable, and because the Helium element is often used for its relative safety, I think these two isotopes represent the sweet spot for Helium power.

 

We did spend $millions inventing a ball point pen that would work in 0 gravity. No need for it to work on Earth and the cosmonauts just used pencils. But I agree, the Moon would make a perfect space station. Let's start there.

The Brits have been working on a new kind of shuttle that uses air-breathing jet engines to get it to the edge of space and then convert to rocket engines from there on out. No need for huge external fuel tanks and solid rocket boosters. The thing has wings and takes off and lands like a plane. Precisely what is needed NOW.

 

I could probably pick your brain endlessly, but it seems your ideal vision is skipping Mars until we populate and idustrialize the the moon in spin cities perhaps, and use Helium 3 as a primary energy source. We can also do something similar at L5? I'd enjoy a broader outline of your vision with as many details as you're willing to offer. (For example, what reactor design do you think is the best choice for application in space?) A plan like that seems like a least action pathway to expand the biosphere.

However, I think it may be missing a key element of desperately needed immediate inspiration. How do you organize a distracted population to support it? We seem to be dealing with a growing proportion of the population that believes any space exploration is a waste. The Constellation program is a casualty. Much of generation X, Y, and now Z, are so far removed from the promise of Apollo, that they often don't believe we went to the moon in the first place. I think that's one important reason we've got to get to Mars as soon as possible. Humanity needs inspiration ASAP.

 

You know, I thought about you when I heard about the new mini-fusion reactors in the NAVY. They really switched the lemon for the gem with that one. Because Fusion power has been just out of reach for years.

As for the military, how have they not been obsolete... what fortuitous circumstances. The Pentagon has been corrupt for years: Massive Fraud at Pentagon.

Redirecting efforts towards the NAVY and the Pacific area has been on the schedule for a year or two now. What an opportunity, and excuse, for politicians in Washington DC to also do a shake up of the defense industry.

 

Wouldn't a base on the ocean floor be better practice?

 

Star Wars indeed. Who needs lead when you can use lasers.

 

I have high hopes and pipe dreams that supply side economics can eventually supply AnCappers with off the shelf, light saber kits.

 

That has been done and they have probably gleaned all the technology they can from the Ocean experience.
The diff between surviving in a vacuum as opposed to extreme pressure would involve different engineering.
How long is the best space suit workable before it gives way to the friction of razor sharp sand particles unsmoothed by water or wind.

Moon Base First.


Moi

No ​

 

Where has it been done? In any case, practice makes perfect and we can discover better practices by analogy.

 

Yeah...that Brit Shuttle is capable of hauling an entire PINT OF ALE plus the glass into Low Earth Orbit.

AboveAlpha

 

Using air breathing engines will by definition take a lot of fuel.

The most economical design for a spaceplane would likely be the largest aircraft ever to take flight simply because of the fuel required to get a useful load to LEO.

As for the moon, read The Case For Mars, it's available on Amazon for cheap. The utility of a Lunar base as a stepping stone to Mars is greatly diminished by the differing environments of the two celestial bodies.

 

We'll leave them behind to sort things out with the ToteCommers, who might gang up and pick off the AnCappers one by one.

 

And who is talking about the gravity on the Moon or Mars?

The problem is zero gravity WHILE TRAVELING THROUGHOUT SPACE.

This is the headache that no government agency and neither private company have been capable to overcome.

I really admire the several messages from many in this topic, where "conquering" other planets sounds so good...

But, lets face it. Our bodies can't handle more than a few months in outer space. Period.

You don't solve this problem, then you are just dreaming, talking trash, inventing hypothesis by lots, etc.

What is first, is to make the vehicle that can provide the right environment to astronauts to travel for months and years in outer space. Only after that, you can add 4x4 SUVs, pre-fabricated buildings, heating system, sewer lines, electric power, movie theater, etc. for the "colonies" in Mars or in another planet... but first, find the right vehicle.

Come on.

 

Carlos.....this is a QUOTE from YOUR POST....and this statement of yours is the reason for my replied post....now the you are quoting above....your post..... .........."At this very moment, the big nightmare for NASA and for any other similar agency in the world, is the ZERO gravity issue."
"Until this issue is not solved, we still lack of the needed technology to travel and live in the Moon and less in Mars."......end quote Carlos.

So Carlos you do state that Zero Gravity is a Nightmare issue for NASA.

You also...Carlos state that because of the ZERO GRAVITY ISSUE "Until this issue is not solved, we still lack of the needed technology to travel and live in the Moon and less in Mars."......end quote Carlos.

After I told you that both the Moon and Mars do have Gravity you then rebuked my post by saying and I quote....."And who is talking about the gravity on the Moon or Mars?"....end quote Carlos.


Soooo....Carlos......it is obvious it is YOU that is talking about Gravity on the Moon and Mars....as those are your words I have quoted right above this sentence are they not? LOL!!!

AboveAlpha

 

It takes about a week to travel to the Moon and six months to travel to Mars. Zero gravity is not an issue for Moon missions. With Mars it is a concern but I dont think it is a deal breaker.

Spinning the ship for artificial gravity is also a plausible scenario.

 

Skylon should be capable of hauling 15 tons into LEO. More importantly, it is supposed to be reusable and fly very often.

 

Actually air breathing engines are about eight times more efficient than rockets.

http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre_howworks.html