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Trump defends Kavanaugh: ‘Scary time for young men in America’

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Think for myself, Oct 2, 2018.

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  1. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The claim was made on the part of yourself, therefore the obligation is on the part of yourself to provide citations, rather than demanding others do your work for you.
     
    Xenamnes, Oct 9, 2018
    #601
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  2. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    My side? I have a side? I do lean left, but am more of a relativist. Anyway, thanks for the book title. I'll check it out.

    As far as individual rights, you'll have to forgive my tendency to split hairs and use analogies. With most such issues, people often talk about them like they would a light switch--on or off. For me, I see things on a sliding scale, maybe like a dimmer switch. Individual rights is the right thing, but we have to agree on how far to take it. You have anarchy on one end and a dictatorship on the other. Can we ever find a happy medium? The social contract is an idea that goes back to the very beginnings of human society. It recognizes that at some point we have to give up certain individual rights in order to be part of the society. If my neighbor stays up all night listening to music at full blast, taking away my right to peace and quiet, do I have the right to go and smash up his equipment? In other words, we need to maintain order, and for that we need to legislate certain behaviors.

    But that can be taken too far. If someone wants an abortion, can we legislate away that right? What about drugs, alcohol, pornography, and all the other things that fall under our cultural mores? If we don't want our rights legislated, we better make sure we're not being one-sided about our purpose.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 9, 2018
    #602
  3. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Didn't want to bring that topic to this post, but it has to do with the sign in the yard.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 9, 2018
    #603
  4. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Of course. Government has a regulatory role when the exercise of your rights impacts the rights of those you are around. For example, while you have the right to swing your arms about, I have the right not to be hit.
    The developing child has a right to live. The broadest agreement on regulation seems to be right about at the halfway point in the pregnancy when movement can be detected by the mom.
    Focusing our Judicial system on Restitution rather than Retribution solves most of that, where there is no victim to be made whole, there should be no crime. That is one of the many benefits of the focus on securing INDIVIDUAL rights that is proclaimed in our foundational document.
     
    Zorro, Oct 9, 2018
    #604
  5. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I don't agree with it.

    I understand the intent of an eye for an eye--that it was a criminal code. In today's politics, we seem to have a similar code of equivalency that justifies our hypocrisies. If you do something wrong, then I can do it too. If it was wrong for one to have sex scandals, does that justify someone else's scandals?

    The truth is, I was trying to avoid using the "whataboutism" cliche.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 9, 2018
    #605
  6. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    We warned the Left that they were not going to enjoy living under the rules they put into place.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
    Zorro, Oct 9, 2018
    #606
  7. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    LOL! You people aren't fooling anyone - not even yourselves.

    If Kavanaugh had been calm, cool and collected you be screaming "see??!? He's too calm! If he was really innocent, he'd be very mad!! So he's GUILTY!!"
     
    Wolfpack, Oct 9, 2018
    #607
  8. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Does that mean you are required to duck? [/humor]
    We both recognize that we need a government to limit certain individual rights.

    By whose authority? We understand that this issue is hotly contested on the very grounds of individual freedoms. I won't get into a debate on that issue, but will ask by what authority we believe we have to right to decide such issues? By creating/applying a definition that supports one view? Are others not free to create and apply their own definition to support their view? What we see here is how one group or another exerts power over another and takes away an individual's freedoms.

    I do believe our judicial system is a failure in so many ways. But I have to ask . . . what if a young man steals items from someone to pay for drugs. Once it's know that the person is a thief and drug addict, who's going to hire him? How can he pay back the debt? What if one person kills another? Do we offer up that person for a revenge killing? I don't have an answer because I can't see things in simple terms.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 9, 2018
    #608
  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Nice that the good guys won

    [​IMG]
     
    Zorro, Oct 9, 2018
    #609
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  10. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Well, I'm glad you did, but it clearly didn't work. And the left did the same not so many years before. I could be snarky and say that it's good that all those wrongs are now ok, but I won't.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 9, 2018
    #610
  11. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Who is "you people"?
     
    Adfundum, Oct 9, 2018
    #611
  12. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    They have a regulatory role at the intersection of free will individuals exercising their rights. Where the Government has no legitimate role is when they are trying to force us to fulfill THE government's dreams rather than allowing us to fulfill our own. Governments exist to secure OUR rights, not to mandate their own vision.
    We act jointly to secure the rights of the weak and helpless against encroachment by the strong.
    Well, if you use your freedom steal from another, society, working collectively may imprison you or force you to pay restitution in order to regain your freedom. That is a perfectly proper role of government in our Free Republic.
    It's horrible. And that our prisons are rape centers, everyone knows this and is silent, but man do we all point fingers at the failings of others, and yet we all silently ignore the shear evil that is our prison system and look at all the salaries this vile system pays, from police, to prosecutors to judges to prison guards. A massive multi billion dollar industry of a ghastly abuse of individual rights, where every moment of the incarcerated is completely controlled by government.
    That's an excellent example. Right now in theft, the victim is an afterthought. A system of Restitution would require repayment, plus penalty, worked off at a light security prison farm at minimum wage where attendance required good behavior. At the conclusion, your victim has been made whole, plus penalty, and hopefully the inname leaves with a marketable skill.
    Continue to use our current system, until we can think up something better.
     
    Zorro, Oct 9, 2018
    #612
  13. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Well tough ****. Today's GOP fights back. We couldn't have run a more decent man than Mitt Romney and that accomplished nothing, so, this time we went with a fighter, and so far, we are very much liking the results of the change in tactics. If you don't like getting hit back, then maybe you should reconsider the next time are tempted to launch an attack.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
    Zorro, Oct 9, 2018
    #613
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  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes the entire hearing, the baseless accusations. Did you miss them all?
     
    Bluesguy, Oct 9, 2018
    #614
  15. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    It wasn't an attack. I can't say it often enough, both sides are wrong. Wrong is wrong all the time, not just until it the other side does it.
    I might be snarky and sarcastic, but I'm not targeting you. You make good points, and unlike so many here, have avoided the ad-hominems. I respect that, and I do actually appreciate being challenged and forced to think through my opinions. I think we can all learn something from each other if we care to.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 9, 2018
    #615
  16. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    And as far as Mitt Romney, it was like two totally different people, Mitt the politician, and Mitt the candidate. I almost liked him until he started regurgitating the required Republican reading of the day.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 9, 2018
    #616
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    ROFL accusations of drugging young girls and then gang raping them is not "vile" in your world?
     
    Bluesguy, Oct 9, 2018
    #617
  18. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    The hell it wasn't. The attack were already posted before he was even named, with XX as a placeholder to fill in as soon as the final candidate was selected.
    No matter how many times you repeat it, you're still wrong. Self Defense is a basic human right. Kav and the Republicans had every right to defend themselves and did so quite well.
    I appreciate that.

    And yes, today's GOP fights back! We couldn't not have run a more decent man than Mitt Romney and they quite easily made mincemeat out of him. So, we went with a fighter this time, and so far, so good!

    Special-Ed Teacher on Paid Leave After Call to Kill Justice Kavanaugh: "Take One for the Team"

    PAID !?!?!?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
    Zorro, Oct 9, 2018
    #618
  19. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    The act is vile and there were references to that by students of the day. Nobody accused Kavanaugh of participating in these activities.
     
    ibobbrob, Oct 9, 2018
    #619
  20. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    uh, yes they did.
     
    Wolfpack, Oct 9, 2018
    #620
  21. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    If they did, they shouldn't have. I read that the activity took place on several occasions and his name was not mentioned.
     
    ibobbrob, Oct 9, 2018
    #621
  22. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Then I misunderstood you. I thought you thought I attacked you.

    This isn't self defense. It's a political dog fight. And you can defend yourself from political dog attacks without all the hostility and anger. I'm a firm believer the ones who let loose and fly off the handle are the ones who've been manipulated and don't realize it yet.

    First, I believe the comment was poorly thought out, but was sarcasm, not an actual call for violence.

    I just saw that Hillary's calling for the same kind of fighting back. Both sides are saying the same thing--"they're being uncivil, they started it, we're not going to take it," and so forth.

    Great. Just what we need is some asinine call for more of this childish crap that gets us nowhere. What was Clinton thinking? That all the hostility would end as soon as the Democrats take over? Seriously? Did the Russians detonate a nuclear stupid bomb over D.C.?
     
    Adfundum, Oct 9, 2018
    #622
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  23. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Mitt was the kind of Republican Progs said we should run, and then Progs quickly destroyed him. Funny how that crap didn't work with Trump!

    Mitt Romney running away from 'NeverTrump' label

    A telling sign that the "NeverTrump" faction of Republicans has become a joke among voters, if not among pundits.
     
    Zorro, Oct 15, 2018
    #623
  24. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    Only a joke among the Trump flock.
     
    ibobbrob, Oct 15, 2018
    #624
  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, Max Boot isn't feeling the love.
     
    Zorro, Oct 15, 2018
    #625
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