Trump's Obamacare ultimatum

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Latherty, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Goldman Sachs and Wall Street are "centrist" - just like Clinton. Stein just pointed out the obvious. Every DP administration has been a Goldman Sachs/Wall Street administration. Think.
     
  2. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Didn't ask about voting for Trump, asked about voting for sitting members of Congress. You elected them on the promise of "repeal," what you got was "oopsie, it's the Democrats fault." Try to pay attention.
     
  3. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    They elected all these new Republicans to remove the reactionary DP establishment from power. The same reason they have been removing reactionary Republicans from office for many election cycles. It takes many elections to remove an entrenched corrupt political class from Congress. Do you know why? ;-)
     
  4. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Over 95% of Republicans in Congress were reelected. So how's that "removal" going anyway?
     
  5. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Democrats have been a higher priority. ;-)
     
  6. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And yet, in a year when Republicans won the White House they lost seats in both the House and Senate. Not exactly great strategery.
     
  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Read my posts. Republicans are repulsive. You know - like Democrats. Hence Trump.
     
  8. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please. Your gang would vote for a syphilis infected dung beetle as long as he had an 'R' after his name.
     
  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Yet more empty ad hominem nonsense instead of substantive rebuttal. Everyone here who has read my posts, especially those who identify as Republicans, knows that I am a very harsh critic of the RP. I suspect you know that too. ;-)
     
  10. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's what you think people should know and there's reality. I didn't mention the word "criticize" I said "vote." So, the remark stands.
     
  11. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The remark was just reflexive empty ad hominem. No informed voter, including Leftists, could with a clear conscience vote for the Clintons.

    "We're talking about state secrets and these are the highest level of state secrets that were put at risk, when it is known that the protections for her e-mail were extremely inadequate," Stein said. "In fact, orders were being issued from her office to others in the Secretary of State Department to do the exact opposite of what she was doing. So certainly, you know, if she wasn't aware that she was violating State Department rules, it raises real issues about her competency." CNN, Jill Stein: Clinton owes voters explanation on emails, By David Wright, 8/15/16.
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/15/politics/stein-hits-clinton-on-emails/index.html
     
  12. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Every single abortion this White house has produced since January 21.

    Look up your own links.

    You voted for a clown, a criminal, convicted, a thief, a know liar, and, worst of all, a complete incompetent. You voted for this guy for the same reason you've supported idiots like Bachmann, Palin, Cruz, and Paul. Because they have an 'R' after their name.

    I voted for Clinton because she was the best qualified candidate, by far.
     
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  13. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    More blind partisan ad hominem nonsense. You need better sources of information. Here is one:

    “Stein argued that a Clinton presidency will simply be the continuation of the policies supported by Washington’s “uniparty,” which is controlled by special interest donors–and will not in any way advance the goals of liberal progressives.”

    “Unlike the Democrats and Republicans, we don’t cuddle up to Wall Street and special interests with our ‘public’ and ‘private’ positions,” Stein added in a separate tweet, referring to the recent WikiLeaks revelation that Hillary Clinton said that politicians need to have “both a public and private position” on every issue: Dr. Jill Stein, “Green Party’s Jill Stein Tells Progressives: ‘Don’t Waste Your Vote on Corporate Democrats’ Who Betray You”, by JULIA HAHN, 13 Oct 2016.
    http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...aste-vote-corporate-democrats-who-betray-you/

    Does that help? ;-)
     
  14. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean as opposed to Trump who is turning us over to EXXON?
     
  15. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    How is appointing a former Exxon CEO to run the DOS "turning us over to Exxon"?
     
  16. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wasn't even referring to State. The EPA? Dept. of Energy? Oh hell yes. State? Not as much.
     
  17. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The EPA is useless. Regulators always protect the interests of Big Money donors from grand juries and prosecutors.
    A local grand jury in Flint Michigan should be investigating all the regulators and politicians involved in the poisoning of the water supply.
     
  18. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the EPA is useless why get rid of the regulations? After all, those EPA regulators are just doing what Trump's big money people want....

    Or maybe not. Maybe the things the EPA does to protect all of us are "inconvenient" to the Billionaires at TrumpCo and if we get rid of those regulations they can make more money.
     
  19. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Other than helping to poison the water in Flint MI and throughout the Southwest how has the EPA helped us?
    They helped BP executives stay out of jail - for cash.
     
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  20. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since you insist...

    The decision to change the water supply was made EXCLUISIVELY by the REPUBLICAN appointed Emergency
    Manager to save money. It was supposed to save about $8m over several years. So, if your jailing people, start with Snyder.

    Breathe the air. Take a drink from a well near a coalmine. Take a swim in Lake Erie near Cleveland. That's the EPA.
     
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  21. AtsamattaU

    AtsamattaU Well-Known Member

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    I suppose most Trump voters could be categorized as unknowing Marxists. They obviously have not read Marx or Lenin, because if they had they'd be shocked at how much the Communists' writings align with the Trump "movement" today. The real irony is how many of them run around labeling liberals as "Marxists" when they are the ones living out Marx's principles.
     
  22. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    LOL! That's a bridge or 2 too far. No one is living out Marx's principles. But Marx and Lenin called for a dictatorship - a massive police state - a tyranny to liquidate the opposition to Communism. The tea party movement and the Trump campaign call for reducing the size and power of government. Lenin would probably dismiss them as naive and doomed to fail. OTH, Lenin did dismiss Big Government socialists (liberals) as corrupt opportunists.

    Trump and the tea party are being tested as we speak. Will they reduce the size and power of the state by winning elections? Marx and Lenin thought that sort of reform was impossible.
     
  23. AtsamattaU

    AtsamattaU Well-Known Member

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    Consider these quotes from Marx:
    These are complaints and indictments directly from Karl Marx, but they may as well have been coming from Trump and his band if ill-informed followers. He expressed all of the above sentiments at his campaign rallies. Take down the elites! they say. Free trade is terrible! they say. They us the word "globalist" as an insult. They expect Trump to bring back dead industries like coal mining and steel production - and worse, they actually think doing so will be good for America.

    Now can you share some quotes that support your claim that "Marx and Lenin called for a dictatorship?" I agree with you about the police state - the irony is that you don't see how Trump and his supporters are building that police state right in front of you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
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  24. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Trump does not actually oppose free trade. He position is that he opposes crooked or stupid negotiated trade deals. I think it is fair to say that Trump stands with the tea party movement in opposition an the elite "political class". Marxists were convinced that this class was dominated by capitalists, but Lenin, and perhaps Marx seemed to be seeing a bit beyond beyond that.

    Regarding the Dictatorship of the proletariat:

    "Engels repeats here in a particularly striking form the basic idea which runs like a red thread through all the works of Marx, namely that the Democratic Republic is the shortest path to the dictatorship of the proletariat. “Lenin, "The State and Revolution", VI Lenin, Penguin, 1992, p 64.

    But it is important to note that Lenin anticipated what he thought would be very effective checks on the corruption and power of that dictatorship. Of course, he was wrong about that.
     
  25. AtsamattaU

    AtsamattaU Well-Known Member

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    All kinds of people have projected their belief about what Trump believes onto the man himself. His actions in office so far have only proved that (a) everyone is wrong because (b) his is totally incompetent. If you haven't noticed, he's now waging battle against the tea party movement embodied by the Freedom Caucus, choosing to side with what they have labeled the "establishment" Republicans. (Meanwhile, the other side accuses the Freedom Caucusers of being on the Koch Brothers' payroll.)


    I interpret that quote to reflect Lenin's criticism of democratic republics (which he would have called democratic-bourgeois republics), not of Communism. While it's fair to label Lenin a dictator, what he advocated was the opposite of a dictatorship. Again, that is the irony of the pro-Trump crowd. They are supporting a man who claims to be for "the people," but in reality is only for himself.

    I just hope some portion of his supporters will grow tired of making excuses for his failures and incompetence and see the situation for what it is.
     

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