Turkey Will Attack US Kurds In One Week If They Don't Withdraw

Jeanette: I think you and I have different definitions of what a "free election" is. However, I'm happy to stipulate [that is, grant the possibility] that this election was not just the kind of fake 'election' that used to be held under Communist rule, and still is. (I've read endless apologies for the Castro dictatorship claiming Cuba is ever so democratic, and I know enough to laugh at them.) Anyway, if Syria can have elections with even a tame opposition, like Singapore, it's a step forward. We've seen this Prince in Saudi trying to move his country into the 20th (sic) Century, step by step. So perhaps Assad wants to do the same thing. It's what any humane person wants to see happen in repressive societies ... movement towards freedom without a bloody upheaval. However, I admit to near-total ignorance about the details of Syrian life. Perhaps I'll return to this subject in a few days having read up more on the subject.

After a bit of reading I see that President Assad had a referendum in 2007, where the turnout was 95.86%, and of that, he won 99.82%. Comment?

 

Hey Goody, if you're talking about me, I'm real, and you know it - although I wonder about you? You certainly don't sound like an American. It's Turkey's actions in the Aegean that doesn't endear me to them. Chios happens to be my maternal heritage.

 

Alright then, that means the point taken. Good.

 

The best way to understand Syria is through this video by an American state senator who visited two years ago. He was amazed at the tapestry of faiths, and the amount of freedom to express one's beliefs which simply doesn't exist in the US. So when you speak of repression, what kind of repression are you talking about?

 

Well naturally, the Russians are to blame. They should have said that it's fine for the Kurds to keep Syria's oil wells, and that they will stop the Turks from attacking. Yeah right!

When something concerns Turkey's security, Russia has no more say than Nato - which by the way, shouldn't the Kurds be mad at Nato for not stopping the Turks? What Russia did was tell the Kurds to hand back the oil wells at Deir ezzor, but they refused and said that the US won't let them anyway.

I'm wondering if Lavrov was right when he said the border guards might have been a provocation. Was it to start a war and force a regime change in Turkey? The Kurds are being heavily reinforced.

 

Your map is way out of date "Vader"
Here's one that keeps current

https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/time/22.01.2018

& it's Expandable !

 

NATO is a defencive alliance. As an organization, a Turkish offencive is outside their mandade to deal with unless an attack on a fellow NATO member. On a case by case basis, the West has come down as hard as it can without scations or military action. I don't expect anything like that to happen unless American and/or Russian forces in the area get drawn into the fighting or Turkey annexes the territory it occupies (as I fully expect will happen if the Kurds fail).

 

Lots of violence from Turkey on that map

 

Here are some quotes by the Russian Director of the Middle East and Caucasus Center for Research, Stanislav Tarasov. It's from a Greek Newspaper that tends to disclose a lot more than most sites - even the Russian ones.

The Turkish military operation of Ankara in Syria, as well as its decision not to approve Kurdish participation in the Sochi peace conference, is worrying Moscow and Russian experts on the Middle East. Tarasov does not exclude Turkey's engagement in a prolonged war, nor a new coup against Erdogan. He is convinced that Erdogan has started a dangerous game, and he doesn't exclude the Kurds showing strong resistance and taking the initiative in their hands.

The Turkish losses might be high in Syria as the Americans have been training the Kurds very well for such an attack. The Russian expert believes that the Americans are leading Erdogan into a war and a fatal outcome. It is not something that will last a day and there will be big losses. He is also afraid of a military coup in Turkey itself.

Erdogan is playing a very serious game confronting the US, NATO, Europe. Even Iran and Russia do not agree. His ambitious tactical maneuvers can collapse, with the first clashes with the armed Kurdish fighters, who, as pointed out by the Russian soldiers, are very capable in battle.

Tarasov stressed that the poor successes in the operation of the "Shield of the Euphrates" did not show the Turkish Army to be effective, but it is too early to draw conclusions. He considers that the "Olive Branch" is a political mistake of Erdogan, which shows inexperience at the level of state leadership.

He said all the Middle Eastern researchers consider the way Erdogan is acting as an enigma, and it is also incomprehensible why the Americans would be undermining their partner in NATO. It looks like Washington is continuing its Arab spring scenarios, and it's heading towards Turkey's segmentation like Iraq and Libya..
​

 

So the SAA is letting the SDF use its territory to out flank the Turks and President Assad keeps vowing to start shooting back if the Turks don't cut it out. At 1st I thought Assad was all bluster but the SAA cooprating (non-combat) with the SDF and the Turks backing FSA attacks on both SDF and SAA seems to be lending credence to his threats. I imagine the Russians are holding his leash hoping the Kurds win becuase if the SAA goes after the Turks head on, it'll mean all out war between Russia, Syria and Iran vs. the #2 NATO power.

I'd hate to be working for the State Department right now, simultaneously at war with the SAA (and with the IS no longer a serious issue that will likely return to the forefront soon) yet backing the SDF against the Turks, our supposed allies. The only bright side I can see is that if this escalates, NATO and Turkey splitting won't put Turkey under Russian control since the Russians would be fighting them as well.

So let's see if I can untangle this mess:
Turkey is NATO.
The US is NATO.
The US and Turkey are allied to the FSA.
The US is at war with the SAA and IS.
The SAA is at war with the FSA and IS.
Russia is at war with the FSA.
The US is allied with the SDF.
Turkey and the FSA are at war with the SDF.
The SDF is at war with the IS, FSA and Turkey.
The IS is at war with everyone plus Iraq, Libya and Philippines.
In other words the only clear side is the IS while everyone else is simultaneously allied and at war with each other, which is which depends on which of the dozen or so 'front lines' your looking at at any single moment. I don't think we've had a war this confusing since the 3rd Crusade!

 

I don't understand your point? Is it that you' blaming Obama?

In any event, the US created ISIS because of their invasion of Iraq as I stated before (and provided a link too). Clearly they weren't defeated because we've all watched their atrocities in Syria these last 5 years. Now they've been helped to safety to be used elsewhere (HERE and HERE).

Some arms intended for moderate Syrian opposition groups may have ended up in the hands of ISIS or affiliated groups. That doesn't mean it was intentional.[/QUOTE]

Of course it was intentional. And I note you didn't even look at the links I provided that show this. There's another (HERE).

 

Oh this gets even worse... Sad...

 

Believe me if Dugin or Korovin wasn't there in Kremlin, Russia would have had to pay lot more than just Karlovs life. This entire thing is not taken as just game of geopolitics around here you know bud? Let me repeat this again to make some points clear, we have so deep and undeniable ties with Syria and the Syrians that they naturally make the entire country our priority concern for national security. We just don't sit here and wait some Atlanticist Kremlin guys to "allow" us to take necessary steps for providing security with our citizens. I know many of you guys seem having been enjoying all that positive perception Russia gained through Trump administration's controversial victory in the past elections but there's no such world in which a foreign power "allows" Turks to take measures in Syria... Not in this solar system dude...

So there may be real harsh outcomes of some actions like underestimating Turkey's position and power especially when it comes to evaluate its natural geopolitical demands... No offense but I suggest you to make your own research and develop some critical thinking before attempting to make serious conclusions over things and names you have little knowledge of.

 

This one surprisingly has some value in it. We can be sure of the direction Erdogan took after this olive branch operation. If Turks risk it for Manbij (another US anchor stronger than Afrin and functions as a buffer keeping Turks away from crossing East of the Euphrates) and start the surge, then we can expect a large scaled military operation to the East of Euphrates with several many entry points as well. If that happens, then there'd be only 2 explanations for the developments:
1) The US managed to get official assurances and guarantees from Turks that they would do all the reforms accordingly within the agreed time window to constitutionally treat Kurdish majority areas as some political form close to the Bask model. So that the US agreed on cutting down the future "police force" of the future autonomous region that would be within Turkey. We can get this one more detailed...
2) The US lost a proxy war to a NATO ally in a complete disastrous way. Then there would be no constitutional reforms necessary for Turkey. Let me tell tho, this one is less likely to me...

 

If it is a defensive alliance how come over a dozen NATO officers were captured from a bunker in Aleppo (HERE).

 

Correction - NATO used to be a defensive alliance.

 

Correction: Arguably NATO was always an offensive alliance. We were all just convinced we were on the side of the angels.

 

Some interesting insights on these events from Thierry Meyssan at Voltairenet below.

Not least is his statement that the 30,000 man border force was meant to include 15,000 former Daesh jihadi fighters discretely recycled by the US. So much for those who argue that the US has never tainted it hands with ISIS. Meyssan additionally has this to say regarding the background:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article199451.html

Meyssan then publishes a photo of McGurk, taken last August (2017) comfortably consorting with leaders of Daesh (ISIS).



The above linked story confirm the recent report by Moon of Alabama that Turkey's military thrust into Afrine was co-ordinated with the Russian military during a visit to Moscow when approval of the plan was given earlier this month. Immediately thereafter Russian troops absented themselves from the area.

According to Meyssan, Trump had not been informed of McGurk's plan.

Like us, he is only fit to be mushroomed... kept in the dark and raised on sh*t, while the real players get to work.

 

The below Moon of Alabama article has what must be the most hypocritical statement I've seen in a very long time. It's uttered by DefSec, General Mattis, just a few days after the Pentagon (Centcom) announced a US led border force inside Syrian sovereign territory and after stating that the US intends to stay, militarily, in Syria for the duration.

The blind clown then has the temerity to say yesterday:

https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...le-by-secretary-mattis-en-route-to-indonesia/

How can anyone possibly trust a Janus character like this? The sheer audacity of the double-think beats me.

There then follows a statement by by the YPG/PKK which is, as MoA says, a real head-scratcher when you consider that the main US airbase in the region is at Incerlik in Turkey, which suggests that US jets will fly from the same airbase that Turkish will be flying from to fight each other over Syrian skies:

And then this from the same piece:

Utter madness reigns.

The world become more bizarre by the day.

 

https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/time/22.01.2018
Lots of Violence . PERIOD -- from all sides
All rooted in an incoherent & contradictory US Foreign Policy
Coldly calculated to sow division, discord, Hate, death and War

Only this time with their malignant machinations, they seem to have painted
themselves into a bit of corner that EXPOSES their Evil intents & purposes

US Needs To Kick Cold War Habit And End Its Addiction to Militarism
US secretary of Offence MadDog Mattis has said that:
America’s “standard of living” is purchased through military dominance over
.................................................................,,,,,,,,,,,............... the rest of the world

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48644.htm

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That's the pessimistic view. Optimistically, we support people's rights to be free of dictatorships, protect the persecuted and combat terrorism. How we go about doing these things is always something that can be questioned, though, especially when, as has happened under Trump's lack of leadership, the military gets free rein to bomb the hell out of people's homes. We've beaten the hell out of IS, but at what cost? But the division and all that that you've mentioned was already there in Syria, e.g. the Kurds and their fight for independence, and the Syrians opposed to Assad and seeking his deposition. I don't know how responsible it was to go in militarily to fight IS and try to support 'rebels' opposed to Assad as well as IS, however. That was probably not the best approach to take in the first place and I have to wonder what they were thinking attempting it. Of course, one thing that probably were not counting on was Russia rushin' in to prop up Assad and do what you accuse the US of doing, which is sow division, discord, hate, death, and especially war. Assad should go, but only when IS is not a significant threat.

Of course, you are probably in the camp that claims the US somehow created and/or controls IS, because you tend to be kooky like that If so, there's not much I can tell you except that Pravda is open and your CF membership card is probably still good

 

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Laughable
Try telling that to the people of Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, Haiti, Columbia, Brazil,
....................................................................Chile, Argentina, Libya, Iraq, Iran etc etc etc.
........................................................................................................that should be enough to undo any credibility you may ascribe to yourself

You've beaten Nobody ! - ISIS has been brought to the edge of defeat by Syria, Hezbollah,
Iran, & Russia. But for them the elected government of Syria would have fallen and that country
would now be a rabid Caliphate. Further justifying obscene US Offence Dept. expenditure

True
But it took an American money$ Bombs and duplicity to beat that hornets' nest into
................................................ a frenzy, as it did in Iraq & Libya, Ukraine etc etc etc

So how's it going in those SEPTIC Piles ? do you still have your foot in IT ?
it took months for me to get rid of the cloying stench associated with those places

.

 

See? There is no debating with you, because you insist on absurd beliefs, such as our military having no role in beating IS. What, you think Trump is secretly supporting IS? And you dare to speak to me of credibility. Russia's efforts have been to prop up Assad against the armed opposition, IS or otherwise, whether by installing anti-aircraft systems (IS doesn't have an airforce ) or by bombing. The Syrians, including Kurds, have been doing the ground work. The US and other coalition forces have done much of the air work.

I don't know why you're in the anti-America club. For me, it was a phase. What's your excuse?

 

Vader - U is one cute bird
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/455365017387675648/b_r-565t_400x400.jpeg



I see you've officially joined the Great Amerikink Bird Herd
dutifully believing what your State Controlled MSM tells you

So when exactly did you contract with this Zombie Bacillus ?